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Wiki Landing Page

GnuCash - Dev mailing list
I would like to propose substantial changes to the Wiki landing page (https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash>), a page I can’t edit. I apologize in advance for the length and complexity of this email, but that’s the price to pay for control.

For ease of analysis, I have put

{Begin}--------------- and
{END}-------------------

around the proposed wiki text. I should also note that there are many minor edits in my texts, beyond the higher-level reorganization. Finally, I include comments about changes in a section immediately after that section.

Now, on to the edits!

First off, the complexity of the page recommends an opening table of contents with the following (linked) top level headings:

1) Available Documentation
1.x) Wiki Translation
2) Installation
3) Support Options
4) Developing for GnuCash

This table of contents should include secondary headings as appropriate.

Note that I propose demoting the Wiki Translation section as a subsection of Available Documentation, since the wikis are, after all, a part of the documentation. I wonder whether there is a better way to handle this, though. I recognize that it is important to get speakers of other languages to their native language sites, but I wonder if there is a way to mimic what www.gnucash.org does, with language links at the top?

Additionally, I recommend promoting Installation to a primary level since this is a subject that comes up regularly, and this will bring this always-contentious issue into more prominence.

Stylistically overall, the page needs bullet entries to begin with a name of the entity being described. For example, under Wiki Translation, the bullets should begin with “German Language Wiki,” “Spanish Language Wiki,” and “Portugese Language Wiki.” This convention should be applied consistently in each section, and will allow the table of contents to make sense.

Under Available Documentation, I propose the following:

{BEGIN}-------------------------------------
1. Available Documentation
1.1 Official GnuCash Documentation. GnuCash offers two major pieces of documentation:
        • The Help Manual {linked} - a quick reference manual for specific tasks, and
        • The Tutorial and Concepts Guide {link} - an in-depth guide to the concepts. It is highly recommended to read at least the first chapters of the guide.
        For the latest documentation (i.e., unstable releases of the documentation), or to get documentation for other languages or earlier releases, see the Documentation page on the GnuCash.org website {link}.

1.2 GnuCash Wikis
        (Parts of) this wiki have been translated into other languages or contain information for one specific language only.
        • The German Wiki {link} de/GnuCash Deutsche Wiki-Seiten, im Entstehen.
        • The Spanish Wiki {link} es/GnuCash Wiki español.
        • The Portugese Wiki {link} pt/GnuCash Sítio Wiki em Português, em andamento.

1.3 The GnuCash FAQ {link} contains the collection of frequently asked questions about GnuCash, including administration, accounting, and glossary questions.

1.4 Using GnuCash collects real life experiences using GnuCash. You may find (user) solutions here that are not covered by the documentation.

1.5 The Wiki Glossary explains some often used terms, with additional terms useful for developers, documentation writers, and translators.

1.6 More Specific Topics [NOTE: I think this needs re-thinking generally; I believe these pages should be linked in elsewhere altogether. In the interest of moving the discussion along, I have kept them here, but see below]
        • "Normal” Usage
                • Keyboard Shortcuts
                • Using Scheduled Transactions
                • Online Banking: Setting up OFXDirectConnect in GnuCash 2 and AqBanking (FinTS/HBCI)
                • Trading Accounts (New since 2.3.8/2.4.0)
        • Scripting and Programming
                • How to create some Custom Reports
                • Python Bindings
                • Notes about the C API
                • The GnuCash API
        • Error Seaching
                • Logging messages and filtering detail.
                • Getting a Stack Trace.
1.7 External Documentation Resources
        • GnuCash Quick Start Guide For Business Users.
        • Also, business users might be interested in a book by PacktPub, UK: GnuCash 2.4 Small Business Accounting, by Ashok Ramachandran.
        • List to external international documentation and a somewhat outdated list of available online documentation.

{END}----------------------------------

I recommend that the section currently in Documentation called “Some more specific topics:” should be moved off this page altogether.
The “Normal” Usage and Scripting and Programming sections could be moved to the Using GnuCash page, and the Error Searching section should be moved below to the Support Options section, or to the page on filing a bug.

Moving on, Installation should similarly be modified:

{BEGIN}----------------------------------

2. Installation
Installation instructions for the different operating systems under which GnuCash operates are included below.
2.1 Linux
        • Debian, Debian packages
        • Gentoo
        • Mandriva
        • RedHat: FC5, RHEL4, CentOS4.3, RHEL5 / SL5.
        • SuSE
        • Slackware
        • Ubuntu

2.2 Windows
        • GnuCash runs on Windows. Download the binary package from sourceforge.net.

2.3 Mac OS X
        • GnuCash runs on Mac OS X. Download the binary package from sourceforge.net.
        • For compiling GnuCash on Mac OS X, see MacOSXInstallation and specific MacOSX/Quartz tips.

2.4 Other Operating Systems
        • FreeBSD
        • Solaris

{END}----------------------------------

NextSupport Options modifications:

{BEGIN}----------------------------------

3) Support Options
If you read the relevant parts of the pages above and are still stuck with a problem or only wish to give some feedback, you can contact us in several ways.

3.1 Current discussion
        • Mailing Lists. Most users will probably contact the GnuCash user community through the appropriate language user mailing list (gnucash-user, gnucash-de, gnucash-nl, gnucash-it, gnucash-es, gnucash-fr, gnucash-br).
        Additional information can be found at wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists.
        • IRC Chat. Some users may wish to use IRC chat, usually in english, as the quickest way to get answers.

3.2 External support pages
These external support sites have subsections related to Gnucash. They are not maintained by the gnucash team, so there is no guarantee on the correctness of the information you will find here.
        • Stack Exchange. Includes a forum on money with "gnucash" tagged questions.

3.3 Feature requests and bug tracking
        • Bugzilla. GnuCash's bug database for error reports and enhancement requests.
        • Uservoice Forum. For more general feature requests.

3.4 Third party tools
Several users have published tools to work with Gnucash.

{END}----------------------------------

Note that “Third Party Tools” isn’t about support, but I can’t figure out where it would fit on this page. Should there be a main section for “Other Resources”?


Finally, Developing for GnuCash:

{BEGIN}----------------------------------

4) Developing for GnuCash
You may also want to check out http://www.gnucash.org/ for the latest news.

This part of the wiki is intended to become the main repository of GnuCash developer documentation. Some formerly static pages have been moved here from the Website http://www.gnucash.org, but the move is not yet complete. Some remaining static pages may be out of date. Wherever a wiki article disagrees with a static web page on the Website, the wiki article here is more likely to be correct.

4.1 Getting involved in the project
The GnuCash Project is a volunteer-driven organization. We need your help to survive and grow, to help others and to help the Project.
There are many ways to contribute your knowledge and experience. Contributing to GnuCash identifies a number of ways to get involved. Below are general ways.

4.2 Mailing Lists
Subscribing to the mailing lists, and asking and answering questions there, is an excellent way to begin contributing the the success of GnuCash. See the Mailing lists wiki page for more.

4.3 Filing Bugs and Enhancement Requests
Improvements and fixes can be submitted using the Bugzilla bug tracker; more general suggestions can be made via the uservoice pages. See {link} for more.

4.4 Developing the Documentation
        • Documentation Update Instructions. This page describes the process to change both the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide and the Help Manual.
        • Doxygen Documentation. The Doxygen source documentation system and its wiki page.

4.5 Translating the Documentation
        • Translations gives an overview of this process, but please keep an eye on the Translation Status.

4.6 Developing the Application Code
4.6.1 Policy
        • Our Development Process
        • Coding Standards
        • Testing

4.6.2 Procedures
        • Git access
        • Building GnuCash from source code.
        • Notes about the Graphical User Interface aka GUI
        • Some notes about the GnuCash XML format for the XML Backend.
        • The schema for the SQL Backend.

4.6.3 Other Development Notes
        • How to improve or add new Account Hierarchy Templates.
        • Reminders for the Project Administration
        • Special events
                • There was a Bounty Program in June / July 2013
                • GSoC Google Summer of Code

4.6.4 Future developments
        • Our Release Schedule
        • Future Roadmap
        • A general edited list of requested enhancements: WishList
        • Particular enhancements:
                • Concept Guide
                • Budgets
                • Credit Notes
        • Old discussions about enhancement requests that have been implemented.
                • Upgrade from 1.8.9 to 1.8.10 and HBCI online banking support
        • Discussion about the License

{END}----------------------------------

Under Future Developments, I think that the Particular Enhancements and Old Discussions could be eliminated. Given that the WishList page says that it is irrelevant, perhaps it should go too (not to mention the entire page).

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Re: Wiki Landing Page

doncram
I think the suggested proposed page is good.  I do have a few changes to
the proposed version to suggest, including about clarifying what
documentation is available, and I'd like for you and me and anyone else to
be able to edit, in the Wiki, a proposed new version of the main Wiki page.

It's not clear which exact links you mean where you have written "{link}"
in a few places.  I'd like to be more clear about those, and their
labelling.  Specifically, I would not recommend linking to the
"Documentation" page at the website, which mixes topic of documentation
with support, and which omits some documentation.  I have no idea how to
change the website, but let's try to make the main Wiki page comprehensive
and accurate about the Documentation available.

Note that Documentation available includes:
   Help manual (available within your downloaded GnuCash software, in
whatever version that is)
   Help manual ( http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help  , with
version not identified )
   Help manual version 2.6 (specifically available somewhere within the
website )
   Help manual version latest version in progress (available within
GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash?  Not
available online? Or available somewhere within
http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?)
   Tutorial and Concepts Guide (available within your downloaded GnuCash
software, in whatever version that is)
   Tutorial and Concepts Guide (
http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide , with version not
identified )
   Tutorial and Concepts Guide version 2.6 (specifically available within
the website, somewhere)
   Tutorial and Concepts Guide latest version in progress (available within
GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash?  Not
available online?  Or available somewhere within
http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?)
   Glossary, within the Tutorial and Concepts Guide
   Glossary at the Wiki, which states that it may have more (
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Glossary )
   FAQ at the Wiki
   Gnucash-user email list archive by month from July 2000 (
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/ )
   Gnucash-user search interface (available where?)
Note "Support" available is different, and includes the email lists and IRC
chat.

Could someone please create a Wiki subpage at Talk:GnuCash/sandbox (i.e.
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Talk:GnuCash/sandbox) where David T. and I and
anyone else could edit the proposal?  I suggest calling it "sandbox" in
parallel to how, in Wikipedia, development of revisions to protected
templates is done.  When we have a complete version there, fully functional
with all links and so on, and have reached some consensus about it being
ready (via discussion at Talk:GnuCash and/or here in gnucash-devel), then
it will be easy for an administrator to copy it over to the main page.

Developing a proposed new version within the Wiki is consistent with the
plan envisaged at the Talk page of the main page, which states:
Please add your suggested changes here and we will commit them as soon as
possible (usually in less than a few hours).--Cstim
<http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/User:Cstim> 04:53, 27 January 2006 (EST)

But I think it is helpful to have a complete new version in a Wiki page,
ready to be copied over, rather than requesting changes piecemeal on the
Talk page or on the gnucash-devel email list.  It is too cumbersome to
request them that way, and requested change might not work, because it
hasn't been demonstrated in a sandbox.  I would develop the sandbox if
someone would please create a sandbox page. :)

cheers, Don

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 2:30 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would like to propose substantial changes to the Wiki landing page (
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash <https://wiki.gnucash.org/
> wiki/GnuCash>), a page I can’t edit. I apologize in advance for the
> length and complexity of this email, but that’s the price to pay for
> control.
>
> For ease of analysis, I have put
>
> {Begin}--------------- and
> {END}-------------------
>
> around the proposed wiki text. I should also note that there are many
> minor edits in my texts, beyond the higher-level reorganization. Finally, I
> include comments about changes in a section immediately after that section.
>
> Now, on to the edits!
>
> First off, the complexity of the page recommends an opening table of
> contents with the following (linked) top level headings:
>
> 1) Available Documentation
> 1.x) Wiki Translation
> 2) Installation
> 3) Support Options
> 4) Developing for GnuCash
>
> This table of contents should include secondary headings as appropriate.
>
> Note that I propose demoting the Wiki Translation section as a subsection
> of Available Documentation, since the wikis are, after all, a part of the
> documentation. I wonder whether there is a better way to handle this,
> though. I recognize that it is important to get speakers of other languages
> to their native language sites, but I wonder if there is a way to mimic
> what www.gnucash.org does, with language links at the top?
>
> Additionally, I recommend promoting Installation to a primary level since
> this is a subject that comes up regularly, and this will bring this
> always-contentious issue into more prominence.
>
> Stylistically overall, the page needs bullet entries to begin with a name
> of the entity being described. For example, under Wiki Translation, the
> bullets should begin with “German Language Wiki,” “Spanish Language Wiki,”
> and “Portugese Language Wiki.” This convention should be applied
> consistently in each section, and will allow the table of contents to make
> sense.
>
> Under Available Documentation, I propose the following:
>
> {BEGIN}-------------------------------------
> 1. Available Documentation
> 1.1 Official GnuCash Documentation. GnuCash offers two major pieces of
> documentation:
>         • The Help Manual {linked} - a quick reference manual for specific
> tasks, and
>         • The Tutorial and Concepts Guide {link} - an in-depth guide to
> the concepts. It is highly recommended to read at least the first chapters
> of the guide.
>         For the latest documentation (i.e., unstable releases of the
> documentation), or to get documentation for other languages or earlier
> releases, see the Documentation page on the GnuCash.org website {link}.
>
> 1.2 GnuCash Wikis
>         (Parts of) this wiki have been translated into other languages or
> contain information for one specific language only.
>         • The German Wiki {link} de/GnuCash Deutsche Wiki-Seiten, im
> Entstehen.
>         • The Spanish Wiki {link} es/GnuCash Wiki español.
>         • The Portugese Wiki {link} pt/GnuCash Sítio Wiki em Português, em
> andamento.
>
> 1.3 The GnuCash FAQ {link} contains the collection of frequently asked
> questions about GnuCash, including administration, accounting, and glossary
> questions.
>
> 1.4 Using GnuCash collects real life experiences using GnuCash. You may
> find (user) solutions here that are not covered by the documentation.
>
> 1.5 The Wiki Glossary explains some often used terms, with additional
> terms useful for developers, documentation writers, and translators.
>
> 1.6 More Specific Topics [NOTE: I think this needs re-thinking generally;
> I believe these pages should be linked in elsewhere altogether. In the
> interest of moving the discussion along, I have kept them here, but see
> below]
>         • "Normal” Usage
>                 • Keyboard Shortcuts
>                 • Using Scheduled Transactions
>                 • Online Banking: Setting up OFXDirectConnect in GnuCash 2
> and AqBanking (FinTS/HBCI)
>                 • Trading Accounts (New since 2.3.8/2.4.0)
>         • Scripting and Programming
>                 • How to create some Custom Reports
>                 • Python Bindings
>                 • Notes about the C API
>                 • The GnuCash API
>         • Error Seaching
>                 • Logging messages and filtering detail.
>                 • Getting a Stack Trace.
> 1.7 External Documentation Resources
>         • GnuCash Quick Start Guide For Business Users.
>         • Also, business users might be interested in a book by PacktPub,
> UK: GnuCash 2.4 Small Business Accounting, by Ashok Ramachandran.
>         • List to external international documentation and a somewhat
> outdated list of available online documentation.
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> I recommend that the section currently in Documentation called “Some more
> specific topics:” should be moved off this page altogether.
> The “Normal” Usage and Scripting and Programming sections could be moved
> to the Using GnuCash page, and the Error Searching section should be moved
> below to the Support Options section, or to the page on filing a bug.
>
> Moving on, Installation should similarly be modified:
>
> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>
> 2. Installation
> Installation instructions for the different operating systems under which
> GnuCash operates are included below.
> 2.1 Linux
>         • Debian, Debian packages
>         • Gentoo
>         • Mandriva
>         • RedHat: FC5, RHEL4, CentOS4.3, RHEL5 / SL5.
>         • SuSE
>         • Slackware
>         • Ubuntu
>
> 2.2 Windows
>         • GnuCash runs on Windows. Download the binary package from
> sourceforge.net.
>
> 2.3 Mac OS X
>         • GnuCash runs on Mac OS X. Download the binary package from
> sourceforge.net.
>         • For compiling GnuCash on Mac OS X, see MacOSXInstallation and
> specific MacOSX/Quartz tips.
>
> 2.4 Other Operating Systems
>         • FreeBSD
>         • Solaris
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> NextSupport Options modifications:
>
> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>
> 3) Support Options
> If you read the relevant parts of the pages above and are still stuck with
> a problem or only wish to give some feedback, you can contact us in several
> ways.
>
> 3.1 Current discussion
>         • Mailing Lists. Most users will probably contact the GnuCash user
> community through the appropriate language user mailing list (gnucash-user,
> gnucash-de, gnucash-nl, gnucash-it, gnucash-es, gnucash-fr, gnucash-br).
>         Additional information can be found at
> wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists.
>         • IRC Chat. Some users may wish to use IRC chat, usually in
> english, as the quickest way to get answers.
>
> 3.2 External support pages
> These external support sites have subsections related to Gnucash. They are
> not maintained by the gnucash team, so there is no guarantee on the
> correctness of the information you will find here.
>         • Stack Exchange. Includes a forum on money with "gnucash" tagged
> questions.
>
> 3.3 Feature requests and bug tracking
>         • Bugzilla. GnuCash's bug database for error reports and
> enhancement requests.
>         • Uservoice Forum. For more general feature requests.
>
> 3.4 Third party tools
> Several users have published tools to work with Gnucash.
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> Note that “Third Party Tools” isn’t about support, but I can’t figure out
> where it would fit on this page. Should there be a main section for “Other
> Resources”?
>
>
> Finally, Developing for GnuCash:
>
> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>
> 4) Developing for GnuCash
> You may also want to check out http://www.gnucash.org/ for the latest
> news.
>
> This part of the wiki is intended to become the main repository of GnuCash
> developer documentation. Some formerly static pages have been moved here
> from the Website http://www.gnucash.org, but the move is not yet
> complete. Some remaining static pages may be out of date. Wherever a wiki
> article disagrees with a static web page on the Website, the wiki article
> here is more likely to be correct.
>
> 4.1 Getting involved in the project
> The GnuCash Project is a volunteer-driven organization. We need your help
> to survive and grow, to help others and to help the Project.
> There are many ways to contribute your knowledge and experience.
> Contributing to GnuCash identifies a number of ways to get involved. Below
> are general ways.
>
> 4.2 Mailing Lists
> Subscribing to the mailing lists, and asking and answering questions
> there, is an excellent way to begin contributing the the success of
> GnuCash. See the Mailing lists wiki page for more.
>
> 4.3 Filing Bugs and Enhancement Requests
> Improvements and fixes can be submitted using the Bugzilla bug tracker;
> more general suggestions can be made via the uservoice pages. See {link}
> for more.
>
> 4.4 Developing the Documentation
>         • Documentation Update Instructions. This page describes the
> process to change both the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide and the Help
> Manual.
>         • Doxygen Documentation. The Doxygen source documentation system
> and its wiki page.
>
> 4.5 Translating the Documentation
>         • Translations gives an overview of this process, but please keep
> an eye on the Translation Status.
>
> 4.6 Developing the Application Code
> 4.6.1 Policy
>         • Our Development Process
>         • Coding Standards
>         • Testing
>
> 4.6.2 Procedures
>         • Git access
>         • Building GnuCash from source code.
>         • Notes about the Graphical User Interface aka GUI
>         • Some notes about the GnuCash XML format for the XML Backend.
>         • The schema for the SQL Backend.
>
> 4.6.3 Other Development Notes
>         • How to improve or add new Account Hierarchy Templates.
>         • Reminders for the Project Administration
>         • Special events
>                 • There was a Bounty Program in June / July 2013
>                 • GSoC Google Summer of Code
>
> 4.6.4 Future developments
>         • Our Release Schedule
>         • Future Roadmap
>         • A general edited list of requested enhancements: WishList
>         • Particular enhancements:
>                 • Concept Guide
>                 • Budgets
>                 • Credit Notes
>         • Old discussions about enhancement requests that have been
> implemented.
>                 • Upgrade from 1.8.9 to 1.8.10 and HBCI online banking
> support
>         • Discussion about the License
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> Under Future Developments, I think that the Particular Enhancements and
> Old Discussions could be eliminated. Given that the WishList page says that
> it is irrelevant, perhaps it should go too (not to mention the entire page).
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
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Re: Wiki Landing Page

GnuCash - Dev mailing list

> On May 27, 2017, at 12:41 AM, doncram <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think the suggested proposed page is good.  I do have a few changes to the proposed version to suggest, including about clarifying what documentation is available, and I'd like for you and me and anyone else to be able to edit, in the Wiki, a proposed new version of the main Wiki page.
>
> It's not clear which exact links you mean where you have written "{link}" in a few places.  I'd like to be more clear about those, and their labelling.  Specifically, I would not recommend linking to the "Documentation" page at the website, which mixes topic of documentation with support, and which omits some documentation.  I have no idea how to change the website, but let's try to make the main Wiki page comprehensive and accurate about the Documentation available.

Don,

The Help link and the Tutorial link would go directly to those docs (e.g. http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help <http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help> & http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide <http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide>), since they are the officially released materials. The last line of that section would link to http://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml <http://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml>.

My intention in the Documentation section here is not to include every Documentation permutation of every possibility that might exist; my goal is to provide the best means of getting good information about GnuCash. Linking to the official, current release documentation serves that purpose. I feel that the tendency to be exhaustive results in so much information that the new user is overwhelmed—as, for example your own experience with the Documentation Update Instructions page. Having four entries each for the Help and the Guide IMO is overkill. I would rather have a shorter list that addresses most immediate needs, but points to the other options that are available, for those who need that as well. Section 1.1 in my example does exactly that.

I’m not sure what you mean about the Documentation page on the GnuCash website omitting things. As I understand it, there are exactly two official pieces of documentation: the Help Manual, and the Tutorial and Concepts Guide. Both of these are available at the Documentation page on the main website. What is missing?

Specific comments on your edits:
1) For Linux users, I believe, the docs are not included in the base package, but must be installed separately. Perhaps different wording could be found.
2) Development copies of the docs are available from www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml <http://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml>
3) Adding the Guide glossary to my mind is duplicative; we already referred the user to the Guide; they can see the Glossary there. Moreover, the Wiki glossary refers to the Guide glossary at the beginning of the page.
4) We could quibble over whether the mailing lists constitute documentation or not. I felt the lists were more support-oriented than documentation oriented, although I conceded that many questions on the list are answered by suggesting the user search the list achives.
5) There is no GnuCash-user search interface, beyond Google.

David

>
> Note that Documentation available includes:
>    Help manual (available within your downloaded GnuCash software, in whatever version that is)
>    Help manual ( http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help <http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help>  , with version not identified )
>    Help manual version 2.6 (specifically available somewhere within the website )
>    Help manual version latest version in progress (available within GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash?  Not available online? Or available somewhere within http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ <http://code.gnucash.org/docs/> ?)
>    Tutorial and Concepts Guide (available within your downloaded GnuCash software, in whatever version that is)
>    Tutorial and Concepts Guide ( http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide <http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide> , with version not identified )
>    Tutorial and Concepts Guide version 2.6 (specifically available within the website, somewhere)
>    Tutorial and Concepts Guide latest version in progress (available within GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash?  Not available online?  Or available somewhere within http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ <http://code.gnucash.org/docs/> ?)
>    Glossary, within the Tutorial and Concepts Guide
>    Glossary at the Wiki, which states that it may have more ( http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Glossary <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Glossary> )
>    FAQ at the Wiki
>    Gnucash-user email list archive by month from July 2000 ( https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/ <https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/> )
>    Gnucash-user search interface (available where?)
> Note "Support" available is different, and includes the email lists and IRC chat.
>
> Could someone please create a Wiki subpage at Talk:GnuCash/sandbox (i.e. http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Talk:GnuCash/sandbox <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Talk:GnuCash/sandbox>) where David T. and I and anyone else could edit the proposal?  I suggest calling it "sandbox" in parallel to how, in Wikipedia, development of revisions to protected templates is done.  When we have a complete version there, fully functional with all links and so on, and have reached some consensus about it being ready (via discussion at Talk:GnuCash and/or here in gnucash-devel), then it will be easy for an administrator to copy it over to the main page.
>
> Developing a proposed new version within the Wiki is consistent with the plan envisaged at the Talk page of the main page, which states:
> Please add your suggested changes here and we will commit them as soon as possible (usually in less than a few hours).--Cstim <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/User:Cstim> 04:53, 27 January 2006 (EST)
>
> But I think it is helpful to have a complete new version in a Wiki page, ready to be copied over, rather than requesting changes piecemeal on the Talk page or on the gnucash-devel email list.  It is too cumbersome to request them that way, and requested change might not work, because it hasn't been demonstrated in a sandbox.  I would develop the sandbox if someone would please create a sandbox page. :)
>
> cheers, Don
>
> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 2:30 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> I would like to propose substantial changes to the Wiki landing page (https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash> <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash>>), a page I can’t edit. I apologize in advance for the length and complexity of this email, but that’s the price to pay for control.
>
> For ease of analysis, I have put
>
> {Begin}--------------- and
> {END}-------------------
>
> around the proposed wiki text. I should also note that there are many minor edits in my texts, beyond the higher-level reorganization. Finally, I include comments about changes in a section immediately after that section.
>
> Now, on to the edits!
>
> First off, the complexity of the page recommends an opening table of contents with the following (linked) top level headings:
>
> 1) Available Documentation
> 1.x) Wiki Translation
> 2) Installation
> 3) Support Options
> 4) Developing for GnuCash
>
> This table of contents should include secondary headings as appropriate.
>
> Note that I propose demoting the Wiki Translation section as a subsection of Available Documentation, since the wikis are, after all, a part of the documentation. I wonder whether there is a better way to handle this, though. I recognize that it is important to get speakers of other languages to their native language sites, but I wonder if there is a way to mimic what www.gnucash.org <http://www.gnucash.org/> does, with language links at the top?
>
> Additionally, I recommend promoting Installation to a primary level since this is a subject that comes up regularly, and this will bring this always-contentious issue into more prominence.
>
> Stylistically overall, the page needs bullet entries to begin with a name of the entity being described. For example, under Wiki Translation, the bullets should begin with “German Language Wiki,” “Spanish Language Wiki,” and “Portugese Language Wiki.” This convention should be applied consistently in each section, and will allow the table of contents to make sense.
>
> Under Available Documentation, I propose the following:
>
> {BEGIN}-------------------------------------
> 1. Available Documentation
> 1.1 Official GnuCash Documentation. GnuCash offers two major pieces of documentation:
>         • The Help Manual {linked} - a quick reference manual for specific tasks, and
>         • The Tutorial and Concepts Guide {link} - an in-depth guide to the concepts. It is highly recommended to read at least the first chapters of the guide.
>         For the latest documentation (i.e., unstable releases of the documentation), or to get documentation for other languages or earlier releases, see the Documentation page on the GnuCash.org website {link}.
>
> 1.2 GnuCash Wikis
>         (Parts of) this wiki have been translated into other languages or contain information for one specific language only.
>         • The German Wiki {link} de/GnuCash Deutsche Wiki-Seiten, im Entstehen.
>         • The Spanish Wiki {link} es/GnuCash Wiki español.
>         • The Portugese Wiki {link} pt/GnuCash Sítio Wiki em Português, em andamento.
>
> 1.3 The GnuCash FAQ {link} contains the collection of frequently asked questions about GnuCash, including administration, accounting, and glossary questions.
>
> 1.4 Using GnuCash collects real life experiences using GnuCash. You may find (user) solutions here that are not covered by the documentation.
>
> 1.5 The Wiki Glossary explains some often used terms, with additional terms useful for developers, documentation writers, and translators.
>
> 1.6 More Specific Topics [NOTE: I think this needs re-thinking generally; I believe these pages should be linked in elsewhere altogether. In the interest of moving the discussion along, I have kept them here, but see below]
>         • "Normal” Usage
>                 • Keyboard Shortcuts
>                 • Using Scheduled Transactions
>                 • Online Banking: Setting up OFXDirectConnect in GnuCash 2 and AqBanking (FinTS/HBCI)
>                 • Trading Accounts (New since 2.3.8/2.4.0)
>         • Scripting and Programming
>                 • How to create some Custom Reports
>                 • Python Bindings
>                 • Notes about the C API
>                 • The GnuCash API
>         • Error Seaching
>                 • Logging messages and filtering detail.
>                 • Getting a Stack Trace.
> 1.7 External Documentation Resources
>         • GnuCash Quick Start Guide For Business Users.
>         • Also, business users might be interested in a book by PacktPub, UK: GnuCash 2.4 Small Business Accounting, by Ashok Ramachandran.
>         • List to external international documentation and a somewhat outdated list of available online documentation.
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> I recommend that the section currently in Documentation called “Some more specific topics:” should be moved off this page altogether.
> The “Normal” Usage and Scripting and Programming sections could be moved to the Using GnuCash page, and the Error Searching section should be moved below to the Support Options section, or to the page on filing a bug.
>
> Moving on, Installation should similarly be modified:
>
> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>
> 2. Installation
> Installation instructions for the different operating systems under which GnuCash operates are included below.
> 2.1 Linux
>         • Debian, Debian packages
>         • Gentoo
>         • Mandriva
>         • RedHat: FC5, RHEL4, CentOS4.3, RHEL5 / SL5.
>         • SuSE
>         • Slackware
>         • Ubuntu
>
> 2.2 Windows
>         • GnuCash runs on Windows. Download the binary package from sourceforge.net <http://sourceforge.net/>.
>
> 2.3 Mac OS X
>         • GnuCash runs on Mac OS X. Download the binary package from sourceforge.net <http://sourceforge.net/>.
>         • For compiling GnuCash on Mac OS X, see MacOSXInstallation and specific MacOSX/Quartz tips.
>
> 2.4 Other Operating Systems
>         • FreeBSD
>         • Solaris
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> NextSupport Options modifications:
>
> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>
> 3) Support Options
> If you read the relevant parts of the pages above and are still stuck with a problem or only wish to give some feedback, you can contact us in several ways.
>
> 3.1 Current discussion
>         • Mailing Lists. Most users will probably contact the GnuCash user community through the appropriate language user mailing list (gnucash-user, gnucash-de, gnucash-nl, gnucash-it, gnucash-es, gnucash-fr, gnucash-br).
>         Additional information can be found at wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists>.
>         • IRC Chat. Some users may wish to use IRC chat, usually in english, as the quickest way to get answers.
>
> 3.2 External support pages
> These external support sites have subsections related to Gnucash. They are not maintained by the gnucash team, so there is no guarantee on the correctness of the information you will find here.
>         • Stack Exchange. Includes a forum on money with "gnucash" tagged questions.
>
> 3.3 Feature requests and bug tracking
>         • Bugzilla. GnuCash's bug database for error reports and enhancement requests.
>         • Uservoice Forum. For more general feature requests.
>
> 3.4 Third party tools
> Several users have published tools to work with Gnucash.
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> Note that “Third Party Tools” isn’t about support, but I can’t figure out where it would fit on this page. Should there be a main section for “Other Resources”?
>
>
> Finally, Developing for GnuCash:
>
> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>
> 4) Developing for GnuCash
> You may also want to check out http://www.gnucash.org/ <http://www.gnucash.org/> for the latest news.
>
> This part of the wiki is intended to become the main repository of GnuCash developer documentation. Some formerly static pages have been moved here from the Website http://www.gnucash.org <http://www.gnucash.org/>, but the move is not yet complete. Some remaining static pages may be out of date. Wherever a wiki article disagrees with a static web page on the Website, the wiki article here is more likely to be correct.
>
> 4.1 Getting involved in the project
> The GnuCash Project is a volunteer-driven organization. We need your help to survive and grow, to help others and to help the Project.
> There are many ways to contribute your knowledge and experience. Contributing to GnuCash identifies a number of ways to get involved. Below are general ways.
>
> 4.2 Mailing Lists
> Subscribing to the mailing lists, and asking and answering questions there, is an excellent way to begin contributing the the success of GnuCash. See the Mailing lists wiki page for more.
>
> 4.3 Filing Bugs and Enhancement Requests
> Improvements and fixes can be submitted using the Bugzilla bug tracker; more general suggestions can be made via the uservoice pages. See {link} for more.
>
> 4.4 Developing the Documentation
>         • Documentation Update Instructions. This page describes the process to change both the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide and the Help Manual.
>         • Doxygen Documentation. The Doxygen source documentation system and its wiki page.
>
> 4.5 Translating the Documentation
>         • Translations gives an overview of this process, but please keep an eye on the Translation Status.
>
> 4.6 Developing the Application Code
> 4.6.1 Policy
>         • Our Development Process
>         • Coding Standards
>         • Testing
>
> 4.6.2 Procedures
>         • Git access
>         • Building GnuCash from source code.
>         • Notes about the Graphical User Interface aka GUI
>         • Some notes about the GnuCash XML format for the XML Backend.
>         • The schema for the SQL Backend.
>
> 4.6.3 Other Development Notes
>         • How to improve or add new Account Hierarchy Templates.
>         • Reminders for the Project Administration
>         • Special events
>                 • There was a Bounty Program in June / July 2013
>                 • GSoC Google Summer of Code
>
> 4.6.4 Future developments
>         • Our Release Schedule
>         • Future Roadmap
>         • A general edited list of requested enhancements: WishList
>         • Particular enhancements:
>                 • Concept Guide
>                 • Budgets
>                 • Credit Notes
>         • Old discussions about enhancement requests that have been implemented.
>                 • Upgrade from 1.8.9 to 1.8.10 and HBCI online banking support
>         • Discussion about the License
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> Under Future Developments, I think that the Particular Enhancements and Old Discussions could be eliminated. Given that the WishList page says that it is irrelevant, perhaps it should go too (not to mention the entire page).
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel <https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel>
>

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Fwd: Wiki Landing Page

doncram
In reply to this post by doncram
I think i did hit "reply-to-all", but I think this still didn't go to
anyone besides David T, so here is my reply again:
--Don
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: doncram <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, May 26, 2017 at 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Wiki Landing Page
To: "David T." <[hidden email]>
Cc: "David T. via gnucash-devel" <[hidden email]>


I think the suggested proposed page is good.  I do have a few changes to
the proposed version to suggest, including about clarifying what
documentation is available, and I'd like for you and me and anyone else to
be able to edit, in the Wiki, a proposed new version of the main Wiki page.

It's not clear which exact links you mean where you have written "{link}"
in a few places.  I'd like to be more clear about those, and their
labelling.  Specifically, I would not recommend linking to the
"Documentation" page at the website, which mixes topic of documentation
with support, and which omits some documentation.  I have no idea how to
change the website, but let's try to make the main Wiki page comprehensive
and accurate about the Documentation available.

Note that Documentation available includes:
   Help manual (available within your downloaded GnuCash software, in
whatever version that is)
   Help manual ( http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help  , with
version not identified )
   Help manual version 2.6 (specifically available somewhere within the
website )
   Help manual version latest version in progress (available within
GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash?  Not
available online? Or available somewhere within
http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?)
   Tutorial and Concepts Guide (available within your downloaded GnuCash
software, in whatever version that is)
   Tutorial and Concepts Guide ( http://www.gnucash.org/
viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide , with version not identified )
   Tutorial and Concepts Guide version 2.6 (specifically available within
the website, somewhere)
   Tutorial and Concepts Guide latest version in progress (available within
GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash?  Not
available online?  Or available somewhere within
http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?)
   Glossary, within the Tutorial and Concepts Guide
   Glossary at the Wiki, which states that it may have more (
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Glossary )
   FAQ at the Wiki
   Gnucash-user email list archive by month from July 2000 (
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/ )
   Gnucash-user search interface (available where?)
Note "Support" available is different, and includes the email lists and IRC
chat.

Could someone please create a Wiki subpage at Talk:GnuCash/sandbox (i.e.
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Talk:GnuCash/sandbox) where David T. and I and
anyone else could edit the proposal?  I suggest calling it "sandbox" in
parallel to how, in Wikipedia, development of revisions to protected
templates is done.  When we have a complete version there, fully functional
with all links and so on, and have reached some consensus about it being
ready (via discussion at Talk:GnuCash and/or here in gnucash-devel), then
it will be easy for an administrator to copy it over to the main page.

Developing a proposed new version within the Wiki is consistent with the
plan envisaged at the Talk page of the main page, which states:
Please add your suggested changes here and we will commit them as soon as
possible (usually in less than a few hours).--Cstim
<http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/User:Cstim> 04:53, 27 January 2006 (EST)

But I think it is helpful to have a complete new version in a Wiki page,
ready to be copied over, rather than requesting changes piecemeal on the
Talk page or on the gnucash-devel email list.  It is too cumbersome to
request them that way, and requested change might not work, because it
hasn't been demonstrated in a sandbox.  I would develop the sandbox if
someone would please create a sandbox page. :)

cheers, Don

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 2:30 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would like to propose substantial changes to the Wiki landing page (
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki
> /GnuCash>), a page I can’t edit. I apologize in advance for the length
> and complexity of this email, but that’s the price to pay for control.
>
> For ease of analysis, I have put
>
> {Begin}--------------- and
> {END}-------------------
>
> around the proposed wiki text. I should also note that there are many
> minor edits in my texts, beyond the higher-level reorganization. Finally, I
> include comments about changes in a section immediately after that section.
>
> Now, on to the edits!
>
> First off, the complexity of the page recommends an opening table of
> contents with the following (linked) top level headings:
>
> 1) Available Documentation
> 1.x) Wiki Translation
> 2) Installation
> 3) Support Options
> 4) Developing for GnuCash
>
> This table of contents should include secondary headings as appropriate.
>
> Note that I propose demoting the Wiki Translation section as a subsection
> of Available Documentation, since the wikis are, after all, a part of the
> documentation. I wonder whether there is a better way to handle this,
> though. I recognize that it is important to get speakers of other languages
> to their native language sites, but I wonder if there is a way to mimic
> what www.gnucash.org does, with language links at the top?
>
> Additionally, I recommend promoting Installation to a primary level since
> this is a subject that comes up regularly, and this will bring this
> always-contentious issue into more prominence.
>
> Stylistically overall, the page needs bullet entries to begin with a name
> of the entity being described. For example, under Wiki Translation, the
> bullets should begin with “German Language Wiki,” “Spanish Language Wiki,”
> and “Portugese Language Wiki.” This convention should be applied
> consistently in each section, and will allow the table of contents to make
> sense.
>
> Under Available Documentation, I propose the following:
>
> {BEGIN}-------------------------------------
> 1. Available Documentation
> 1.1 Official GnuCash Documentation. GnuCash offers two major pieces of
> documentation:
>         • The Help Manual {linked} - a quick reference manual for specific
> tasks, and
>         • The Tutorial and Concepts Guide {link} - an in-depth guide to
> the concepts. It is highly recommended to read at least the first chapters
> of the guide.
>         For the latest documentation (i.e., unstable releases of the
> documentation), or to get documentation for other languages or earlier
> releases, see the Documentation page on the GnuCash.org website {link}.
>
> 1.2 GnuCash Wikis
>         (Parts of) this wiki have been translated into other languages or
> contain information for one specific language only.
>         • The German Wiki {link} de/GnuCash Deutsche Wiki-Seiten, im
> Entstehen.
>         • The Spanish Wiki {link} es/GnuCash Wiki español.
>         • The Portugese Wiki {link} pt/GnuCash Sítio Wiki em Português, em
> andamento.
>
> 1.3 The GnuCash FAQ {link} contains the collection of frequently asked
> questions about GnuCash, including administration, accounting, and glossary
> questions.
>
> 1.4 Using GnuCash collects real life experiences using GnuCash. You may
> find (user) solutions here that are not covered by the documentation.
>
> 1.5 The Wiki Glossary explains some often used terms, with additional
> terms useful for developers, documentation writers, and translators.
>
> 1.6 More Specific Topics [NOTE: I think this needs re-thinking generally;
> I believe these pages should be linked in elsewhere altogether. In the
> interest of moving the discussion along, I have kept them here, but see
> below]
>         • "Normal” Usage
>                 • Keyboard Shortcuts
>                 • Using Scheduled Transactions
>                 • Online Banking: Setting up OFXDirectConnect in GnuCash 2
> and AqBanking (FinTS/HBCI)
>                 • Trading Accounts (New since 2.3.8/2.4.0)
>         • Scripting and Programming
>                 • How to create some Custom Reports
>                 • Python Bindings
>                 • Notes about the C API
>                 • The GnuCash API
>         • Error Seaching
>                 • Logging messages and filtering detail.
>                 • Getting a Stack Trace.
> 1.7 External Documentation Resources
>         • GnuCash Quick Start Guide For Business Users.
>         • Also, business users might be interested in a book by PacktPub,
> UK: GnuCash 2.4 Small Business Accounting, by Ashok Ramachandran.
>         • List to external international documentation and a somewhat
> outdated list of available online documentation.
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> I recommend that the section currently in Documentation called “Some more
> specific topics:” should be moved off this page altogether.
> The “Normal” Usage and Scripting and Programming sections could be moved
> to the Using GnuCash page, and the Error Searching section should be moved
> below to the Support Options section, or to the page on filing a bug.
>
> Moving on, Installation should similarly be modified:
>
> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>
> 2. Installation
> Installation instructions for the different operating systems under which
> GnuCash operates are included below.
> 2.1 Linux
>         • Debian, Debian packages
>         • Gentoo
>         • Mandriva
>         • RedHat: FC5, RHEL4, CentOS4.3, RHEL5 / SL5.
>         • SuSE
>         • Slackware
>         • Ubuntu
>
> 2.2 Windows
>         • GnuCash runs on Windows. Download the binary package from
> sourceforge.net.
>
> 2.3 Mac OS X
>         • GnuCash runs on Mac OS X. Download the binary package from
> sourceforge.net.
>         • For compiling GnuCash on Mac OS X, see MacOSXInstallation and
> specific MacOSX/Quartz tips.
>
> 2.4 Other Operating Systems
>         • FreeBSD
>         • Solaris
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> NextSupport Options modifications:
>
> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>
> 3) Support Options
> If you read the relevant parts of the pages above and are still stuck with
> a problem or only wish to give some feedback, you can contact us in several
> ways.
>
> 3.1 Current discussion
>         • Mailing Lists. Most users will probably contact the GnuCash user
> community through the appropriate language user mailing list (gnucash-user,
> gnucash-de, gnucash-nl, gnucash-it, gnucash-es, gnucash-fr, gnucash-br).
>         Additional information can be found at
> wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists.
>         • IRC Chat. Some users may wish to use IRC chat, usually in
> english, as the quickest way to get answers.
>
> 3.2 External support pages
> These external support sites have subsections related to Gnucash. They are
> not maintained by the gnucash team, so there is no guarantee on the
> correctness of the information you will find here.
>         • Stack Exchange. Includes a forum on money with "gnucash" tagged
> questions.
>
> 3.3 Feature requests and bug tracking
>         • Bugzilla. GnuCash's bug database for error reports and
> enhancement requests.
>         • Uservoice Forum. For more general feature requests.
>
> 3.4 Third party tools
> Several users have published tools to work with Gnucash.
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> Note that “Third Party Tools” isn’t about support, but I can’t figure out
> where it would fit on this page. Should there be a main section for “Other
> Resources”?
>
>
> Finally, Developing for GnuCash:
>
> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>
> 4) Developing for GnuCash
> You may also want to check out http://www.gnucash.org/ for the latest
> news.
>
> This part of the wiki is intended to become the main repository of GnuCash
> developer documentation. Some formerly static pages have been moved here
> from the Website http://www.gnucash.org, but the move is not yet
> complete. Some remaining static pages may be out of date. Wherever a wiki
> article disagrees with a static web page on the Website, the wiki article
> here is more likely to be correct.
>
> 4.1 Getting involved in the project
> The GnuCash Project is a volunteer-driven organization. We need your help
> to survive and grow, to help others and to help the Project.
> There are many ways to contribute your knowledge and experience.
> Contributing to GnuCash identifies a number of ways to get involved. Below
> are general ways.
>
> 4.2 Mailing Lists
> Subscribing to the mailing lists, and asking and answering questions
> there, is an excellent way to begin contributing the the success of
> GnuCash. See the Mailing lists wiki page for more.
>
> 4.3 Filing Bugs and Enhancement Requests
> Improvements and fixes can be submitted using the Bugzilla bug tracker;
> more general suggestions can be made via the uservoice pages. See {link}
> for more.
>
> 4.4 Developing the Documentation
>         • Documentation Update Instructions. This page describes the
> process to change both the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide and the Help
> Manual.
>         • Doxygen Documentation. The Doxygen source documentation system
> and its wiki page.
>
> 4.5 Translating the Documentation
>         • Translations gives an overview of this process, but please keep
> an eye on the Translation Status.
>
> 4.6 Developing the Application Code
> 4.6.1 Policy
>         • Our Development Process
>         • Coding Standards
>         • Testing
>
> 4.6.2 Procedures
>         • Git access
>         • Building GnuCash from source code.
>         • Notes about the Graphical User Interface aka GUI
>         • Some notes about the GnuCash XML format for the XML Backend.
>         • The schema for the SQL Backend.
>
> 4.6.3 Other Development Notes
>         • How to improve or add new Account Hierarchy Templates.
>         • Reminders for the Project Administration
>         • Special events
>                 • There was a Bounty Program in June / July 2013
>                 • GSoC Google Summer of Code
>
> 4.6.4 Future developments
>         • Our Release Schedule
>         • Future Roadmap
>         • A general edited list of requested enhancements: WishList
>         • Particular enhancements:
>                 • Concept Guide
>                 • Budgets
>                 • Credit Notes
>         • Old discussions about enhancement requests that have been
> implemented.
>                 • Upgrade from 1.8.9 to 1.8.10 and HBCI online banking
> support
>         • Discussion about the License
>
> {END}----------------------------------
>
> Under Future Developments, I think that the Particular Enhancements and
> Old Discussions could be eliminated. Given that the WishList page says that
> it is irrelevant, perhaps it should go too (not to mention the entire page).
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>
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Re: Wiki Landing Page

doncram
In reply to this post by GnuCash - Dev mailing list
Thanks for your reply to me.  Right, I have to agree that what is on the
main page needs to be simple, and can't link to multiple versions of the
Help manual or of the Tutorial and Concepts Guide.  A different page about
documentation in the Wiki should list all the separate versions, however,
to inform any of us trying to develop them, or trying to understand why one
user says they do see or don't see something odd.  Your point that "for

Linux users, the docs are not included in the base package, but must be
installed separately" should be stated, for example.

However, I still think the main page should not basically say "for other
documentation, see this documentation page at the website" when that target
only lists the Help manual and the Tutorial and Concepts Guide and gives no
other documentation, and then goes off into non-documentation like email
lists and IRC.  And I do think the FAQ on the Wiki, at least, if not any
searchable interface to the email archives, should be considered part of
documentation and mentioned in the main page.

Again, I think if you and I could edit a "sandbox" version of the mainpage,
we could sort all this out, and anyone could review to see that it all
works, and then an administrator could easily copy it over to the
mainpage.  I meant to ask anyone to please create such a sandbox page so we
could do that, by my previous email reply (which i think went to just you,
until i just forwarded a new copy to gnucash-dev.

Could someone please open a page at
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox  for me and David T. to edit
at.  :)  I am not allowed to create a new page.  Or I can wait a few more
days and see whether I automatically get rights to create new wiki pages,
which I was told may happen after being emailconfirmed for a week.

Cheers, --Don


On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:22 PM, David T. <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On May 27, 2017, at 12:41 AM, doncram <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think the suggested proposed page is good.  I do have a few changes to
> the proposed version to suggest, including about clarifying what
> documentation is available, and I'd like for you and me and anyone else to
> be able to edit, in the Wiki, a proposed new version of the main Wiki page.
>
> It's not clear which exact links you mean where you have written "{link}"
> in a few places.  I'd like to be more clear about those, and their
> labelling.  Specifically, I would not recommend linking to the
> "Documentation" page at the website, which mixes topic of documentation
> with support, and which omits some documentation.  I have no idea how to
> change the website, but let's try to make the main Wiki page comprehensive
> and accurate about the Documentation available.
>
>
> Don,
>
> The Help link and the Tutorial link would go directly to those docs (e.g.
> http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help & http:
> //www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide), since they are the officially
> released materials. The last line of that section would link to
> http://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml.
>
> My intention in the Documentation section here is not to include every
> Documentation permutation of every possibility that might exist; my goal is
> to provide the best means of getting good information about GnuCash.
> Linking to the official, current release documentation serves that purpose.
> I feel that the tendency to be exhaustive results in so much information
> that the new user is overwhelmed—as, for example your own experience with
> the Documentation Update Instructions page. Having four entries each for
> the Help and the Guide IMO is overkill. I would rather have a shorter list
> that addresses most immediate needs, but points to the other options that
> are available, for those who need that as well. Section 1.1 in my example
> does exactly that.
>
> I’m not sure what you mean about the Documentation page on the GnuCash
> website omitting things. As I understand it, there are exactly two official
> pieces of documentation: the Help Manual, and the Tutorial and Concepts
> Guide. Both of these are available at the Documentation page on the main
> website. What is missing?
>
> Specific comments on your edits:
> 1)
> ​​
> For Linux users, I believe, the docs are not included in the base package,
> but must be installed separately. Perhaps different wording could be found.
> 2) Development copies of the docs are available from
> www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml
> 3) Adding the Guide glossary to my mind is duplicative; we already
> referred the user to the Guide; they can see the Glossary there. Moreover,
> the Wiki glossary refers to the Guide glossary at the beginning of the page.
> 4) We could quibble over whether the mailing lists constitute
> documentation or not. I felt the lists were more support-oriented than
> documentation oriented, although I conceded that many questions on the list
> are answered by suggesting the user search the list achives.
> 5) There is no GnuCash-user search interface, beyond Google.
>
> David
>
>
> Note that Documentation available includes:
>    Help manual (available within your downloaded GnuCash software, in
> whatever version that is)
>    Help manual ( http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help  , with
> version not identified )
>    Help manual version 2.6 (specifically available somewhere within the
> website )
>    Help manual version latest version in progress (available within
> GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash?  Not
> available online? Or available somewhere within
> http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?)
>    Tutorial and Concepts Guide (available within your downloaded GnuCash
> software, in whatever version that is)
>    Tutorial and Concepts Guide ( http://www.gnucash.org/
> viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide , with version not identified )
>    Tutorial and Concepts Guide version 2.6 (specifically available within
> the website, somewhere)
>    Tutorial and Concepts Guide latest version in progress (available
> within GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of
> GnuCash?  Not available online?  Or available somewhere within
> http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?)
>    Glossary, within the Tutorial and Concepts Guide
>    Glossary at the Wiki, which states that it may have more (
> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Glossary )
>    FAQ at the Wiki
>    Gnucash-user email list archive by month from July 2000 (
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/ )
>    Gnucash-user search interface (available where?)
> Note "Support" available is different, and includes the email lists and
> IRC chat.
>
> Could someone please create a Wiki subpage at Talk:GnuCash/sandbox (i.e.
> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Talk:GnuCash/sandbox) where David T. and I
> and anyone else could edit the proposal?  I suggest calling it "sandbox" in
> parallel to how, in Wikipedia, development of revisions to protected
> templates is done.  When we have a complete version there, fully functional
> with all links and so on, and have reached some consensus about it being
> ready (via discussion at Talk:GnuCash and/or here in gnucash-devel), then
> it will be easy for an administrator to copy it over to the main page.
>
> Developing a proposed new version within the Wiki is consistent with the
> plan envisaged at the Talk page of the main page, which states:
> Please add your suggested changes here and we will commit them as soon as
> possible (usually in less than a few hours).--Cstim
> <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/User:Cstim> 04:53, 27 January 2006 (EST)
>
> But I think it is helpful to have a complete new version in a Wiki page,
> ready to be copied over, rather than requesting changes piecemeal on the
> Talk page or on the gnucash-devel email list.  It is too cumbersome to
> request them that way, and requested change might not work, because it
> hasn't been demonstrated in a sandbox.  I would develop the sandbox if
> someone would please create a sandbox page. :)
>
> cheers, Don
>
> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 2:30 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I would like to propose substantial changes to the Wiki landing page (
>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki
>> /GnuCash>), a page I can’t edit. I apologize in advance for the length
>> and complexity of this email, but that’s the price to pay for control.
>>
>> For ease of analysis, I have put
>>
>> {Begin}--------------- and
>> {END}-------------------
>>
>> around the proposed wiki text. I should also note that there are many
>> minor edits in my texts, beyond the higher-level reorganization. Finally, I
>> include comments about changes in a section immediately after that section.
>>
>> Now, on to the edits!
>>
>> First off, the complexity of the page recommends an opening table of
>> contents with the following (linked) top level headings:
>>
>> 1) Available Documentation
>> 1.x) Wiki Translation
>> 2) Installation
>> 3) Support Options
>> 4) Developing for GnuCash
>>
>> This table of contents should include secondary headings as appropriate.
>>
>> Note that I propose demoting the Wiki Translation section as a subsection
>> of Available Documentation, since the wikis are, after all, a part of the
>> documentation. I wonder whether there is a better way to handle this,
>> though. I recognize that it is important to get speakers of other languages
>> to their native language sites, but I wonder if there is a way to mimic
>> what www.gnucash.org does, with language links at the top?
>>
>> Additionally, I recommend promoting Installation to a primary level since
>> this is a subject that comes up regularly, and this will bring this
>> always-contentious issue into more prominence.
>>
>> Stylistically overall, the page needs bullet entries to begin with a name
>> of the entity being described. For example, under Wiki Translation, the
>> bullets should begin with “German Language Wiki,” “Spanish Language Wiki,”
>> and “Portugese Language Wiki.” This convention should be applied
>> consistently in each section, and will allow the table of contents to make
>> sense.
>>
>> Under Available Documentation, I propose the following:
>>
>> {BEGIN}-------------------------------------
>> 1. Available Documentation
>> 1.1 Official GnuCash Documentation. GnuCash offers two major pieces of
>> documentation:
>>         • The Help Manual {linked} - a quick reference manual for
>> specific tasks, and
>>         • The Tutorial and Concepts Guide {link} - an in-depth guide to
>> the concepts. It is highly recommended to read at least the first chapters
>> of the guide.
>>         For the latest documentation (i.e., unstable releases of the
>> documentation), or to get documentation for other languages or earlier
>> releases, see the Documentation page on the GnuCash.org
>> <http://gnucash.org> website {link}.
>>
>> 1.2 GnuCash Wikis
>>         (Parts of) this wiki have been translated into other languages or
>> contain information for one specific language only.
>>         • The German Wiki {link} de/GnuCash Deutsche Wiki-Seiten, im
>> Entstehen.
>>         • The Spanish Wiki {link} es/GnuCash Wiki español.
>>         • The Portugese Wiki {link} pt/GnuCash Sítio Wiki em Português,
>> em andamento.
>>
>> 1.3 The GnuCash FAQ {link} contains the collection of frequently asked
>> questions about GnuCash, including administration, accounting, and glossary
>> questions.
>>
>> 1.4 Using GnuCash collects real life experiences using GnuCash. You may
>> find (user) solutions here that are not covered by the documentation.
>>
>> 1.5 The Wiki Glossary explains some often used terms, with additional
>> terms useful for developers, documentation writers, and translators.
>>
>> 1.6 More Specific Topics [NOTE: I think this needs re-thinking generally;
>> I believe these pages should be linked in elsewhere altogether. In the
>> interest of moving the discussion along, I have kept them here, but see
>> below]
>>         • "Normal” Usage
>>                 • Keyboard Shortcuts
>>                 • Using Scheduled Transactions
>>                 • Online Banking: Setting up OFXDirectConnect in GnuCash
>> 2 and AqBanking (FinTS/HBCI)
>>                 • Trading Accounts (New since 2.3.8/2.4.0)
>>         • Scripting and Programming
>>                 • How to create some Custom Reports
>>                 • Python Bindings
>>                 • Notes about the C API
>>                 • The GnuCash API
>>         • Error Seaching
>>                 • Logging messages and filtering detail.
>>                 • Getting a Stack Trace.
>> 1.7 External Documentation Resources
>>         • GnuCash Quick Start Guide For Business Users.
>>         • Also, business users might be interested in a book by PacktPub,
>> UK: GnuCash 2.4 Small Business Accounting, by Ashok Ramachandran.
>>         • List to external international documentation and a somewhat
>> outdated list of available online documentation.
>>
>> {END}----------------------------------
>>
>> I recommend that the section currently in Documentation called “Some more
>> specific topics:” should be moved off this page altogether.
>> The “Normal” Usage and Scripting and Programming sections could be moved
>> to the Using GnuCash page, and the Error Searching section should be moved
>> below to the Support Options section, or to the page on filing a bug.
>>
>> Moving on, Installation should similarly be modified:
>>
>> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>>
>> 2. Installation
>> Installation instructions for the different operating systems under which
>> GnuCash operates are included below.
>> 2.1 Linux
>>         • Debian, Debian packages
>>         • Gentoo
>>         • Mandriva
>>         • RedHat: FC5, RHEL4, CentOS4.3, RHEL5 / SL5.
>>         • SuSE
>>         • Slackware
>>         • Ubuntu
>>
>> 2.2 Windows
>>         • GnuCash runs on Windows. Download the binary package from
>> sourceforge.net.
>>
>> 2.3 Mac OS X
>>         • GnuCash runs on Mac OS X. Download the binary package from
>> sourceforge.net.
>>         • For compiling GnuCash on Mac OS X, see MacOSXInstallation and
>> specific MacOSX/Quartz tips.
>>
>> 2.4 Other Operating Systems
>>         • FreeBSD
>>         • Solaris
>>
>> {END}----------------------------------
>>
>> NextSupport Options modifications:
>>
>> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>>
>> 3) Support Options
>> If you read the relevant parts of the pages above and are still stuck
>> with a problem or only wish to give some feedback, you can contact us in
>> several ways.
>>
>> 3.1 Current discussion
>>         • Mailing Lists. Most users will probably contact the GnuCash
>> user community through the appropriate language user mailing list
>> (gnucash-user, gnucash-de, gnucash-nl, gnucash-it, gnucash-es, gnucash-fr,
>> gnucash-br).
>>         Additional information can be found at
>> wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists.
>>         • IRC Chat. Some users may wish to use IRC chat, usually in
>> english, as the quickest way to get answers.
>>
>> 3.2 External support pages
>> These external support sites have subsections related to Gnucash. They
>> are not maintained by the gnucash team, so there is no guarantee on the
>> correctness of the information you will find here.
>>         • Stack Exchange. Includes a forum on money with "gnucash" tagged
>> questions.
>>
>> 3.3 Feature requests and bug tracking
>>         • Bugzilla. GnuCash's bug database for error reports and
>> enhancement requests.
>>         • Uservoice Forum. For more general feature requests.
>>
>> 3.4 Third party tools
>> Several users have published tools to work with Gnucash.
>>
>> {END}----------------------------------
>>
>> Note that “Third Party Tools” isn’t about support, but I can’t figure out
>> where it would fit on this page. Should there be a main section for “Other
>> Resources”?
>>
>>
>> Finally, Developing for GnuCash:
>>
>> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>>
>> 4) Developing for GnuCash
>> You may also want to check out http://www.gnucash.org/ for the latest
>> news.
>>
>> This part of the wiki is intended to become the main repository of
>> GnuCash developer documentation. Some formerly static pages have been moved
>> here from the Website http://www.gnucash.org, but the move is not yet
>> complete. Some remaining static pages may be out of date. Wherever a wiki
>> article disagrees with a static web page on the Website, the wiki article
>> here is more likely to be correct.
>>
>> 4.1 Getting involved in the project
>> The GnuCash Project is a volunteer-driven organization. We need your help
>> to survive and grow, to help others and to help the Project.
>> There are many ways to contribute your knowledge and experience.
>> Contributing to GnuCash identifies a number of ways to get involved. Below
>> are general ways.
>>
>> 4.2 Mailing Lists
>> Subscribing to the mailing lists, and asking and answering questions
>> there, is an excellent way to begin contributing the the success of
>> GnuCash. See the Mailing lists wiki page for more.
>>
>> 4.3 Filing Bugs and Enhancement Requests
>> Improvements and fixes can be submitted using the Bugzilla bug tracker;
>> more general suggestions can be made via the uservoice pages. See {link}
>> for more.
>>
>> 4.4 Developing the Documentation
>>         • Documentation Update Instructions. This page describes the
>> process to change both the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide and the Help
>> Manual.
>>         • Doxygen Documentation. The Doxygen source documentation system
>> and its wiki page.
>>
>> 4.5 Translating the Documentation
>>         • Translations gives an overview of this process, but please keep
>> an eye on the Translation Status.
>>
>> 4.6 Developing the Application Code
>> 4.6.1 Policy
>>         • Our Development Process
>>         • Coding Standards
>>         • Testing
>>
>> 4.6.2 Procedures
>>         • Git access
>>         • Building GnuCash from source code.
>>         • Notes about the Graphical User Interface aka GUI
>>         • Some notes about the GnuCash XML format for the XML Backend.
>>         • The schema for the SQL Backend.
>>
>> 4.6.3 Other Development Notes
>>         • How to improve or add new Account Hierarchy Templates.
>>         • Reminders for the Project Administration
>>         • Special events
>>                 • There was a Bounty Program in June / July 2013
>>                 • GSoC Google Summer of Code
>>
>> 4.6.4 Future developments
>>         • Our Release Schedule
>>         • Future Roadmap
>>         • A general edited list of requested enhancements: WishList
>>         • Particular enhancements:
>>                 • Concept Guide
>>                 • Budgets
>>                 • Credit Notes
>>         • Old discussions about enhancement requests that have been
>> implemented.
>>                 • Upgrade from 1.8.9 to 1.8.10 and HBCI online banking
>> support
>>         • Discussion about the License
>>
>> {END}----------------------------------
>>
>> Under Future Developments, I think that the Particular Enhancements and
>> Old Discussions could be eliminated. Given that the WishList page says that
>> it is irrelevant, perhaps it should go too (not to mention the entire page).
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Wiki Landing Page

Adrien Monteleone
FYI, I don’t believe the help or the guide comes with the Mac bundle either. I tried the links in the help menu for both and nothing happened. I should think if they aren’t installed, they should at least point to the appropriate locations on the web. (I think there is already a bug for this)

-Adrien

> On May 27, 2017, at 7:03 PM, doncram <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your reply to me.  Right, I have to agree that what is on the
> main page needs to be simple, and can't link to multiple versions of the
> Help manual or of the Tutorial and Concepts Guide.  A different page about
> documentation in the Wiki should list all the separate versions, however,
> to inform any of us trying to develop them, or trying to understand why one
> user says they do see or don't see something odd.  Your point that "for
> ​
> Linux users, the docs are not included in the base package, but must be
> installed separately" should be stated, for example.
>
> However, I still think the main page should not basically say "for other
> documentation, see this documentation page at the website" when that target
> only lists the Help manual and the Tutorial and Concepts Guide and gives no
> other documentation, and then goes off into non-documentation like email
> lists and IRC.  And I do think the FAQ on the Wiki, at least, if not any
> searchable interface to the email archives, should be considered part of
> documentation and mentioned in the main page.
>
> Again, I think if you and I could edit a "sandbox" version of the mainpage,
> we could sort all this out, and anyone could review to see that it all
> works, and then an administrator could easily copy it over to the
> mainpage.  I meant to ask anyone to please create such a sandbox page so we
> could do that, by my previous email reply (which i think went to just you,
> until i just forwarded a new copy to gnucash-dev.
>
> Could someone please open a page at
> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox  for me and David T. to edit
> at.  :)  I am not allowed to create a new page.  Or I can wait a few more
> days and see whether I automatically get rights to create new wiki pages,
> which I was told may happen after being emailconfirmed for a week.
>
> Cheers, --Don
>
>
> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:22 PM, David T. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 27, 2017, at 12:41 AM, doncram <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I think the suggested proposed page is good.  I do have a few changes to
>> the proposed version to suggest, including about clarifying what
>> documentation is available, and I'd like for you and me and anyone else to
>> be able to edit, in the Wiki, a proposed new version of the main Wiki page.
>>
>> It's not clear which exact links you mean where you have written "{link}"
>> in a few places.  I'd like to be more clear about those, and their
>> labelling.  Specifically, I would not recommend linking to the
>> "Documentation" page at the website, which mixes topic of documentation
>> with support, and which omits some documentation.  I have no idea how to
>> change the website, but let's try to make the main Wiki page comprehensive
>> and accurate about the Documentation available.
>>
>>
>> Don,
>>
>> The Help link and the Tutorial link would go directly to those docs (e.g.
>> http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help & http:
>> //www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide), since they are the officially
>> released materials. The last line of that section would link to
>> http://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml.
>>
>> My intention in the Documentation section here is not to include every
>> Documentation permutation of every possibility that might exist; my goal is
>> to provide the best means of getting good information about GnuCash.
>> Linking to the official, current release documentation serves that purpose.
>> I feel that the tendency to be exhaustive results in so much information
>> that the new user is overwhelmed—as, for example your own experience with
>> the Documentation Update Instructions page. Having four entries each for
>> the Help and the Guide IMO is overkill. I would rather have a shorter list
>> that addresses most immediate needs, but points to the other options that
>> are available, for those who need that as well. Section 1.1 in my example
>> does exactly that.
>>
>> I’m not sure what you mean about the Documentation page on the GnuCash
>> website omitting things. As I understand it, there are exactly two official
>> pieces of documentation: the Help Manual, and the Tutorial and Concepts
>> Guide. Both of these are available at the Documentation page on the main
>> website. What is missing?
>>
>> Specific comments on your edits:
>> 1)
>> ​​
>> For Linux users, I believe, the docs are not included in the base package,
>> but must be installed separately. Perhaps different wording could be found.
>> 2) Development copies of the docs are available from
>> www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml
>> 3) Adding the Guide glossary to my mind is duplicative; we already
>> referred the user to the Guide; they can see the Glossary there. Moreover,
>> the Wiki glossary refers to the Guide glossary at the beginning of the page.
>> 4) We could quibble over whether the mailing lists constitute
>> documentation or not. I felt the lists were more support-oriented than
>> documentation oriented, although I conceded that many questions on the list
>> are answered by suggesting the user search the list achives.
>> 5) There is no GnuCash-user search interface, beyond Google.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> Note that Documentation available includes:
>>   Help manual (available within your downloaded GnuCash software, in
>> whatever version that is)
>>   Help manual ( http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help  , with
>> version not identified )
>>   Help manual version 2.6 (specifically available somewhere within the
>> website )
>>   Help manual version latest version in progress (available within
>> GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash?  Not
>> available online? Or available somewhere within
>> http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?)
>>   Tutorial and Concepts Guide (available within your downloaded GnuCash
>> software, in whatever version that is)
>>   Tutorial and Concepts Guide ( http://www.gnucash.org/
>> viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide , with version not identified )
>>   Tutorial and Concepts Guide version 2.6 (specifically available within
>> the website, somewhere)
>>   Tutorial and Concepts Guide latest version in progress (available
>> within GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of
>> GnuCash?  Not available online?  Or available somewhere within
>> http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?)
>>   Glossary, within the Tutorial and Concepts Guide
>>   Glossary at the Wiki, which states that it may have more (
>> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Glossary )
>>   FAQ at the Wiki
>>   Gnucash-user email list archive by month from July 2000 (
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/ )
>>   Gnucash-user search interface (available where?)
>> Note "Support" available is different, and includes the email lists and
>> IRC chat.
>>
>> Could someone please create a Wiki subpage at Talk:GnuCash/sandbox (i.e.
>> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Talk:GnuCash/sandbox) where David T. and I
>> and anyone else could edit the proposal?  I suggest calling it "sandbox" in
>> parallel to how, in Wikipedia, development of revisions to protected
>> templates is done.  When we have a complete version there, fully functional
>> with all links and so on, and have reached some consensus about it being
>> ready (via discussion at Talk:GnuCash and/or here in gnucash-devel), then
>> it will be easy for an administrator to copy it over to the main page.
>>
>> Developing a proposed new version within the Wiki is consistent with the
>> plan envisaged at the Talk page of the main page, which states:
>> Please add your suggested changes here and we will commit them as soon as
>> possible (usually in less than a few hours).--Cstim
>> <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/User:Cstim> 04:53, 27 January 2006 (EST)
>>
>> But I think it is helpful to have a complete new version in a Wiki page,
>> ready to be copied over, rather than requesting changes piecemeal on the
>> Talk page or on the gnucash-devel email list.  It is too cumbersome to
>> request them that way, and requested change might not work, because it
>> hasn't been demonstrated in a sandbox.  I would develop the sandbox if
>> someone would please create a sandbox page. :)
>>
>> cheers, Don
>>
>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 2:30 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to propose substantial changes to the Wiki landing page (
>>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki
>>> /GnuCash>), a page I can’t edit. I apologize in advance for the length
>>> and complexity of this email, but that’s the price to pay for control.
>>>
>>> For ease of analysis, I have put
>>>
>>> {Begin}--------------- and
>>> {END}-------------------
>>>
>>> around the proposed wiki text. I should also note that there are many
>>> minor edits in my texts, beyond the higher-level reorganization. Finally, I
>>> include comments about changes in a section immediately after that section.
>>>
>>> Now, on to the edits!
>>>
>>> First off, the complexity of the page recommends an opening table of
>>> contents with the following (linked) top level headings:
>>>
>>> 1) Available Documentation
>>> 1.x) Wiki Translation
>>> 2) Installation
>>> 3) Support Options
>>> 4) Developing for GnuCash
>>>
>>> This table of contents should include secondary headings as appropriate.
>>>
>>> Note that I propose demoting the Wiki Translation section as a subsection
>>> of Available Documentation, since the wikis are, after all, a part of the
>>> documentation. I wonder whether there is a better way to handle this,
>>> though. I recognize that it is important to get speakers of other languages
>>> to their native language sites, but I wonder if there is a way to mimic
>>> what www.gnucash.org does, with language links at the top?
>>>
>>> Additionally, I recommend promoting Installation to a primary level since
>>> this is a subject that comes up regularly, and this will bring this
>>> always-contentious issue into more prominence.
>>>
>>> Stylistically overall, the page needs bullet entries to begin with a name
>>> of the entity being described. For example, under Wiki Translation, the
>>> bullets should begin with “German Language Wiki,” “Spanish Language Wiki,”
>>> and “Portugese Language Wiki.” This convention should be applied
>>> consistently in each section, and will allow the table of contents to make
>>> sense.
>>>
>>> Under Available Documentation, I propose the following:
>>>
>>> {BEGIN}-------------------------------------
>>> 1. Available Documentation
>>> 1.1 Official GnuCash Documentation. GnuCash offers two major pieces of
>>> documentation:
>>>        • The Help Manual {linked} - a quick reference manual for
>>> specific tasks, and
>>>        • The Tutorial and Concepts Guide {link} - an in-depth guide to
>>> the concepts. It is highly recommended to read at least the first chapters
>>> of the guide.
>>>        For the latest documentation (i.e., unstable releases of the
>>> documentation), or to get documentation for other languages or earlier
>>> releases, see the Documentation page on the GnuCash.org
>>> <http://gnucash.org> website {link}.
>>>
>>> 1.2 GnuCash Wikis
>>>        (Parts of) this wiki have been translated into other languages or
>>> contain information for one specific language only.
>>>        • The German Wiki {link} de/GnuCash Deutsche Wiki-Seiten, im
>>> Entstehen.
>>>        • The Spanish Wiki {link} es/GnuCash Wiki español.
>>>        • The Portugese Wiki {link} pt/GnuCash Sítio Wiki em Português,
>>> em andamento.
>>>
>>> 1.3 The GnuCash FAQ {link} contains the collection of frequently asked
>>> questions about GnuCash, including administration, accounting, and glossary
>>> questions.
>>>
>>> 1.4 Using GnuCash collects real life experiences using GnuCash. You may
>>> find (user) solutions here that are not covered by the documentation.
>>>
>>> 1.5 The Wiki Glossary explains some often used terms, with additional
>>> terms useful for developers, documentation writers, and translators.
>>>
>>> 1.6 More Specific Topics [NOTE: I think this needs re-thinking generally;
>>> I believe these pages should be linked in elsewhere altogether. In the
>>> interest of moving the discussion along, I have kept them here, but see
>>> below]
>>>        • "Normal” Usage
>>>                • Keyboard Shortcuts
>>>                • Using Scheduled Transactions
>>>                • Online Banking: Setting up OFXDirectConnect in GnuCash
>>> 2 and AqBanking (FinTS/HBCI)
>>>                • Trading Accounts (New since 2.3.8/2.4.0)
>>>        • Scripting and Programming
>>>                • How to create some Custom Reports
>>>                • Python Bindings
>>>                • Notes about the C API
>>>                • The GnuCash API
>>>        • Error Seaching
>>>                • Logging messages and filtering detail.
>>>                • Getting a Stack Trace.
>>> 1.7 External Documentation Resources
>>>        • GnuCash Quick Start Guide For Business Users.
>>>        • Also, business users might be interested in a book by PacktPub,
>>> UK: GnuCash 2.4 Small Business Accounting, by Ashok Ramachandran.
>>>        • List to external international documentation and a somewhat
>>> outdated list of available online documentation.
>>>
>>> {END}----------------------------------
>>>
>>> I recommend that the section currently in Documentation called “Some more
>>> specific topics:” should be moved off this page altogether.
>>> The “Normal” Usage and Scripting and Programming sections could be moved
>>> to the Using GnuCash page, and the Error Searching section should be moved
>>> below to the Support Options section, or to the page on filing a bug.
>>>
>>> Moving on, Installation should similarly be modified:
>>>
>>> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>>>
>>> 2. Installation
>>> Installation instructions for the different operating systems under which
>>> GnuCash operates are included below.
>>> 2.1 Linux
>>>        • Debian, Debian packages
>>>        • Gentoo
>>>        • Mandriva
>>>        • RedHat: FC5, RHEL4, CentOS4.3, RHEL5 / SL5.
>>>        • SuSE
>>>        • Slackware
>>>        • Ubuntu
>>>
>>> 2.2 Windows
>>>        • GnuCash runs on Windows. Download the binary package from
>>> sourceforge.net.
>>>
>>> 2.3 Mac OS X
>>>        • GnuCash runs on Mac OS X. Download the binary package from
>>> sourceforge.net.
>>>        • For compiling GnuCash on Mac OS X, see MacOSXInstallation and
>>> specific MacOSX/Quartz tips.
>>>
>>> 2.4 Other Operating Systems
>>>        • FreeBSD
>>>        • Solaris
>>>
>>> {END}----------------------------------
>>>
>>> NextSupport Options modifications:
>>>
>>> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>>>
>>> 3) Support Options
>>> If you read the relevant parts of the pages above and are still stuck
>>> with a problem or only wish to give some feedback, you can contact us in
>>> several ways.
>>>
>>> 3.1 Current discussion
>>>        • Mailing Lists. Most users will probably contact the GnuCash
>>> user community through the appropriate language user mailing list
>>> (gnucash-user, gnucash-de, gnucash-nl, gnucash-it, gnucash-es, gnucash-fr,
>>> gnucash-br).
>>>        Additional information can be found at
>>> wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists.
>>>        • IRC Chat. Some users may wish to use IRC chat, usually in
>>> english, as the quickest way to get answers.
>>>
>>> 3.2 External support pages
>>> These external support sites have subsections related to Gnucash. They
>>> are not maintained by the gnucash team, so there is no guarantee on the
>>> correctness of the information you will find here.
>>>        • Stack Exchange. Includes a forum on money with "gnucash" tagged
>>> questions.
>>>
>>> 3.3 Feature requests and bug tracking
>>>        • Bugzilla. GnuCash's bug database for error reports and
>>> enhancement requests.
>>>        • Uservoice Forum. For more general feature requests.
>>>
>>> 3.4 Third party tools
>>> Several users have published tools to work with Gnucash.
>>>
>>> {END}----------------------------------
>>>
>>> Note that “Third Party Tools” isn’t about support, but I can’t figure out
>>> where it would fit on this page. Should there be a main section for “Other
>>> Resources”?
>>>
>>>
>>> Finally, Developing for GnuCash:
>>>
>>> {BEGIN}----------------------------------
>>>
>>> 4) Developing for GnuCash
>>> You may also want to check out http://www.gnucash.org/ for the latest
>>> news.
>>>
>>> This part of the wiki is intended to become the main repository of
>>> GnuCash developer documentation. Some formerly static pages have been moved
>>> here from the Website http://www.gnucash.org, but the move is not yet
>>> complete. Some remaining static pages may be out of date. Wherever a wiki
>>> article disagrees with a static web page on the Website, the wiki article
>>> here is more likely to be correct.
>>>
>>> 4.1 Getting involved in the project
>>> The GnuCash Project is a volunteer-driven organization. We need your help
>>> to survive and grow, to help others and to help the Project.
>>> There are many ways to contribute your knowledge and experience.
>>> Contributing to GnuCash identifies a number of ways to get involved. Below
>>> are general ways.
>>>
>>> 4.2 Mailing Lists
>>> Subscribing to the mailing lists, and asking and answering questions
>>> there, is an excellent way to begin contributing the the success of
>>> GnuCash. See the Mailing lists wiki page for more.
>>>
>>> 4.3 Filing Bugs and Enhancement Requests
>>> Improvements and fixes can be submitted using the Bugzilla bug tracker;
>>> more general suggestions can be made via the uservoice pages. See {link}
>>> for more.
>>>
>>> 4.4 Developing the Documentation
>>>        • Documentation Update Instructions. This page describes the
>>> process to change both the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide and the Help
>>> Manual.
>>>        • Doxygen Documentation. The Doxygen source documentation system
>>> and its wiki page.
>>>
>>> 4.5 Translating the Documentation
>>>        • Translations gives an overview of this process, but please keep
>>> an eye on the Translation Status.
>>>
>>> 4.6 Developing the Application Code
>>> 4.6.1 Policy
>>>        • Our Development Process
>>>        • Coding Standards
>>>        • Testing
>>>
>>> 4.6.2 Procedures
>>>        • Git access
>>>        • Building GnuCash from source code.
>>>        • Notes about the Graphical User Interface aka GUI
>>>        • Some notes about the GnuCash XML format for the XML Backend.
>>>        • The schema for the SQL Backend.
>>>
>>> 4.6.3 Other Development Notes
>>>        • How to improve or add new Account Hierarchy Templates.
>>>        • Reminders for the Project Administration
>>>        • Special events
>>>                • There was a Bounty Program in June / July 2013
>>>                • GSoC Google Summer of Code
>>>
>>> 4.6.4 Future developments
>>>        • Our Release Schedule
>>>        • Future Roadmap
>>>        • A general edited list of requested enhancements: WishList
>>>        • Particular enhancements:
>>>                • Concept Guide
>>>                • Budgets
>>>                • Credit Notes
>>>        • Old discussions about enhancement requests that have been
>>> implemented.
>>>                • Upgrade from 1.8.9 to 1.8.10 and HBCI online banking
>>> support
>>>        • Discussion about the License
>>>
>>> {END}----------------------------------
>>>
>>> Under Future Developments, I think that the Particular Enhancements and
>>> Old Discussions could be eliminated. Given that the WishList page says that
>>> it is irrelevant, perhaps it should go too (not to mention the entire page).
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gnucash-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel

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Re: Wiki Landing Page

GnuCash - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by doncram
Don, 
Perhaps it is not clear, but my proposed section 1 would include all the different types of documentation. For example,  1.3 would link to the FAQ. People here would get directly to each of these areas from this page. 
David

 
 
  On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 5:03, doncram<[hidden email]> wrote:   Thanks for your reply to me.  Right, I have to agree that what is on the main page needs to be simple, and can't link to multiple versions of the Help manual or of the Tutorial and Concepts Guide.  A different page about documentation in the Wiki should list all the separate versions, however, to inform any of us trying to develop them, or trying to understand why one user says they do see or don't see something odd.  Your point that "for ​Linux users, the docs are not included in the base package, but must be installed separately" should be stated, for example.
However, I still think the main page should not basically say "for other documentation, see this documentation page at the website" when that target only lists the Help manual and the Tutorial and Concepts Guide and gives no other documentation, and then goes off into non-documentation like email lists and IRC.  And I do think the FAQ on the Wiki, at least, if not any searchable interface to the email archives, should be considered part of documentation and mentioned in the main page.

Again, I think if you and I could edit a "sandbox" version of the mainpage, we could sort all this out, and anyone could review to see that it all works, and then an administrator could easily copy it over to the mainpage.  I meant to ask anyone to please create such a sandbox page so we could do that, by my previous email reply (which i think went to just you, until i just forwarded a new copy to gnucash-dev.
Could someone please open a page at http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox  for me and David T. to edit at.  :)  I am not allowed to create a new page.  Or I can wait a few more days and see whether I automatically get rights to create new wiki pages, which I was told may happen after being emailconfirmed for a week.
Cheers, --Don

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:22 PM, David T. <[hidden email]> wrote:



On May 27, 2017, at 12:41 AM, doncram <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think the suggested proposed page is good.  I do have a few changes to the proposed version to suggest, including about clarifying what documentation is available, and I'd like for you and me and anyone else to be able to edit, in the Wiki, a proposed new version of the main Wiki page.
It's not clear which exact links you mean where you have written "{link}" in a few places.  I'd like to be more clear about those, and their labelling.  Specifically, I would not recommend linking to the "Documentation" page at the website, which mixes topic of documentation with support, and which omits some documentation.  I have no idea how to change the website, but let's try to make the main Wiki page comprehensive and accurate about the Documentation available. 

Don,
The Help link and the Tutorial link would go directly to those docs (e.g. http://www.gnucash.org/ viewdoc.phtml?doc=help & http: //www.gnucash.org/viewdoc. phtml?doc=guide), since they are the officially released materials. The last line of that section would link to http://www.gnucash.org/ docs.phtml.
My intention in the Documentation section here is not to include every Documentation permutation of every possibility that might exist; my goal is to provide the best means of getting good information about GnuCash. Linking to the official, current release documentation serves that purpose. I feel that the tendency to be exhaustive results in so much information that the new user is overwhelmed—as, for example your own experience with the Documentation Update Instructions page. Having four entries each for the Help and the Guide IMO is overkill. I would rather have a shorter list that addresses most immediate needs, but points to the other options that are available, for those who need that as well. Section 1.1 in my example does exactly that.
I’m not sure what you mean about the Documentation page on the GnuCash website omitting things. As I understand it, there are exactly two official pieces of documentation: the Help Manual, and the Tutorial and Concepts Guide. Both of these are available at the Documentation page on the main website. What is missing?
Specific comments on your edits:1)​​ For Linux users, I believe, the docs are not included in the base package, but must be installed separately. Perhaps different wording could be found.2) Development copies of the docs are available from www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml 3) Adding the Guide glossary to my mind is duplicative; we already referred the user to the Guide; they can see the Glossary there. Moreover, the Wiki glossary refers to the Guide glossary at the beginning of the page.4) We could quibble over whether the mailing lists constitute documentation or not. I felt the lists were more support-oriented than documentation oriented, although I conceded that many questions on the list are answered by suggesting the user search the list achives.5) There is no GnuCash-user search interface, beyond Google.
David


Note that Documentation available includes:   Help manual (available within your downloaded GnuCash software, in whatever version that is)   Help manual ( http://www.gnucash.org/ viewdoc.phtml?doc=help  , with version not identified )   Help manual version 2.6 (specifically available somewhere within the website )   Help manual version latest version in progress (available within GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash?  Not available online? Or available somewhere within http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?)   Tutorial and Concepts Guide (available within your downloaded GnuCash software, in whatever version that is)   Tutorial and Concepts Guide ( http://www.gnucash.org/ viewdoc.phtml?doc=guide , with version not identified )   Tutorial and Concepts Guide version 2.6 (specifically available within the website, somewhere)   Tutorial and Concepts Guide latest version in progress (available within GnuCash, if you download the working, non-stable version of GnuCash?  Not available online?  Or available somewhere within http://code.gnucash.org/docs/ ?)   Glossary, within the Tutorial and Concepts Guide   Glossary at the Wiki, which states that it may have more ( http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/ Glossary )   FAQ at the Wiki
   Gnucash-user email list archive by month from July 2000 ( https://lists.gnucash.org/ pipermail/gnucash-user/ )   Gnucash-user search interface (available where?)Note "Support" available is different, and includes the email lists and IRC chat.
Could someone please create a Wiki subpage at Talk:GnuCash/sandbox (i.e. http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/ Talk:GnuCash/sandbox) where David T. and I and anyone else could edit the proposal?  I suggest calling it "sandbox" in parallel to how, in Wikipedia, development of revisions to protected templates is done.  When we have a complete version there, fully functional with all links and so on, and have reached some consensus about it being ready (via discussion at Talk:GnuCash and/or here in gnucash-devel), then it will be easy for an administrator to copy it over to the main page.
Developing a proposed new version within the Wiki is consistent with the plan envisaged at the Talk page of the main page, which states:Please add your suggested changes here and we will commit them as soon as possible (usually in less than a few hours).--Cstim 04:53, 27 January 2006 (EST)

But I think it is helpful to have a complete new version in a Wiki page, ready to be copied over, rather than requesting changes piecemeal on the Talk page or on the gnucash-devel email list.  It is too cumbersome to request them that way, and requested change might not work, because it hasn't been demonstrated in a sandbox.  I would develop the sandbox if someone would please create a sandbox page. :)
cheers, Don
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 2:30 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel <[hidden email]> wrote:

I would like to propose substantial changes to the Wiki landing page (https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki /GnuCash <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki /GnuCash>), a page I can’t edit. I apologize in advance for the length and complexity of this email, but that’s the price to pay for control.

For ease of analysis, I have put

{Begin}--------------- and
{END}-------------------

around the proposed wiki text. I should also note that there are many minor edits in my texts, beyond the higher-level reorganization. Finally, I include comments about changes in a section immediately after that section.

Now, on to the edits!

First off, the complexity of the page recommends an opening table of contents with the following (linked) top level headings:

1) Available Documentation
1.x) Wiki Translation
2) Installation
3) Support Options
4) Developing for GnuCash

This table of contents should include secondary headings as appropriate.

Note that I propose demoting the Wiki Translation section as a subsection of Available Documentation, since the wikis are, after all, a part of the documentation. I wonder whether there is a better way to handle this, though. I recognize that it is important to get speakers of other languages to their native language sites, but I wonder if there is a way to mimic what www.gnucash.org does, with language links at the top?

Additionally, I recommend promoting Installation to a primary level since this is a subject that comes up regularly, and this will bring this always-contentious issue into more prominence.

Stylistically overall, the page needs bullet entries to begin with a name of the entity being described. For example, under Wiki Translation, the bullets should begin with “German Language Wiki,” “Spanish Language Wiki,” and “Portugese Language Wiki.” This convention should be applied consistently in each section, and will allow the table of contents to make sense.

Under Available Documentation, I propose the following:

{BEGIN}----------------------- --------------
1. Available Documentation
1.1 Official GnuCash Documentation. GnuCash offers two major pieces of documentation:
        • The Help Manual {linked} - a quick reference manual for specific tasks, and
        • The Tutorial and Concepts Guide {link} - an in-depth guide to the concepts. It is highly recommended to read at least the first chapters of the guide.
        For the latest documentation (i.e., unstable releases of the documentation), or to get documentation for other languages or earlier releases, see the Documentation page on the GnuCash.org website {link}.

1.2 GnuCash Wikis
        (Parts of) this wiki have been translated into other languages or contain information for one specific language only.
        • The German Wiki {link} de/GnuCash Deutsche Wiki-Seiten, im Entstehen.
        • The Spanish Wiki {link} es/GnuCash Wiki español.
        • The Portugese Wiki {link} pt/GnuCash Sítio Wiki em Português, em andamento.

1.3 The GnuCash FAQ {link} contains the collection of frequently asked questions about GnuCash, including administration, accounting, and glossary questions.

1.4 Using GnuCash collects real life experiences using GnuCash. You may find (user) solutions here that are not covered by the documentation.

1.5 The Wiki Glossary explains some often used terms, with additional terms useful for developers, documentation writers, and translators.

1.6 More Specific Topics [NOTE: I think this needs re-thinking generally; I believe these pages should be linked in elsewhere altogether. In the interest of moving the discussion along, I have kept them here, but see below]
        • "Normal” Usage
                • Keyboard Shortcuts
                • Using Scheduled Transactions
                • Online Banking: Setting up OFXDirectConnect in GnuCash 2 and AqBanking (FinTS/HBCI)
                • Trading Accounts (New since 2.3.8/2.4.0)
        • Scripting and Programming
                • How to create some Custom Reports
                • Python Bindings
                • Notes about the C API
                • The GnuCash API
        • Error Seaching
                • Logging messages and filtering detail.
                • Getting a Stack Trace.
1.7 External Documentation Resources
        • GnuCash Quick Start Guide For Business Users.
        • Also, business users might be interested in a book by PacktPub, UK: GnuCash 2.4 Small Business Accounting, by Ashok Ramachandran.
        • List to external international documentation and a somewhat outdated list of available online documentation.

{END}------------------------- ---------

I recommend that the section currently in Documentation called “Some more specific topics:” should be moved off this page altogether.
The “Normal” Usage and Scripting and Programming sections could be moved to the Using GnuCash page, and the Error Searching section should be moved below to the Support Options section, or to the page on filing a bug.

Moving on, Installation should similarly be modified:

{BEGIN}----------------------- -----------

2. Installation
Installation instructions for the different operating systems under which GnuCash operates are included below.
2.1 Linux
        • Debian, Debian packages
        • Gentoo
        • Mandriva
        • RedHat: FC5, RHEL4, CentOS4.3, RHEL5 / SL5.
        • SuSE
        • Slackware
        • Ubuntu

2.2 Windows
        • GnuCash runs on Windows. Download the binary package from sourceforge.net.

2.3 Mac OS X
        • GnuCash runs on Mac OS X. Download the binary package from sourceforge.net.
        • For compiling GnuCash on Mac OS X, see MacOSXInstallation and specific MacOSX/Quartz tips.

2.4 Other Operating Systems
        • FreeBSD
        • Solaris

{END}------------------------- ---------

NextSupport Options modifications:

{BEGIN}----------------------- -----------

3) Support Options
If you read the relevant parts of the pages above and are still stuck with a problem or only wish to give some feedback, you can contact us in several ways.

3.1 Current discussion
        • Mailing Lists. Most users will probably contact the GnuCash user community through the appropriate language user mailing list (gnucash-user, gnucash-de, gnucash-nl, gnucash-it, gnucash-es, gnucash-fr, gnucash-br).
        Additional information can be found at wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_ Lists.
        • IRC Chat. Some users may wish to use IRC chat, usually in english, as the quickest way to get answers.

3.2 External support pages
These external support sites have subsections related to Gnucash. They are not maintained by the gnucash team, so there is no guarantee on the correctness of the information you will find here.
        • Stack Exchange. Includes a forum on money with "gnucash" tagged questions.

3.3 Feature requests and bug tracking
        • Bugzilla. GnuCash's bug database for error reports and enhancement requests.
        • Uservoice Forum. For more general feature requests.

3.4 Third party tools
Several users have published tools to work with Gnucash.

{END}------------------------- ---------

Note that “Third Party Tools” isn’t about support, but I can’t figure out where it would fit on this page. Should there be a main section for “Other Resources”?


Finally, Developing for GnuCash:

{BEGIN}----------------------- -----------

4) Developing for GnuCash
You may also want to check out http://www.gnucash.org/ for the latest news.

This part of the wiki is intended to become the main repository of GnuCash developer documentation. Some formerly static pages have been moved here from the Website http://www.gnucash.org, but the move is not yet complete. Some remaining static pages may be out of date. Wherever a wiki article disagrees with a static web page on the Website, the wiki article here is more likely to be correct.

4.1 Getting involved in the project
The GnuCash Project is a volunteer-driven organization. We need your help to survive and grow, to help others and to help the Project.
There are many ways to contribute your knowledge and experience. Contributing to GnuCash identifies a number of ways to get involved. Below are general ways.

4.2 Mailing Lists
Subscribing to the mailing lists, and asking and answering questions there, is an excellent way to begin contributing the the success of GnuCash. See the Mailing lists wiki page for more.

4.3 Filing Bugs and Enhancement Requests
Improvements and fixes can be submitted using the Bugzilla bug tracker; more general suggestions can be made via the uservoice pages. See {link} for more.

4.4 Developing the Documentation
        • Documentation Update Instructions. This page describes the process to change both the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide and the Help Manual.
        • Doxygen Documentation. The Doxygen source documentation system and its wiki page.

4.5 Translating the Documentation
        • Translations gives an overview of this process, but please keep an eye on the Translation Status.

4.6 Developing the Application Code
4.6.1 Policy
        • Our Development Process
        • Coding Standards
        • Testing

4.6.2 Procedures
        • Git access
        • Building GnuCash from source code.
        • Notes about the Graphical User Interface aka GUI
        • Some notes about the GnuCash XML format for the XML Backend.
        • The schema for the SQL Backend.

4.6.3 Other Development Notes
        • How to improve or add new Account Hierarchy Templates.
        • Reminders for the Project Administration
        • Special events
                • There was a Bounty Program in June / July 2013
                • GSoC Google Summer of Code

4.6.4 Future developments
        • Our Release Schedule
        • Future Roadmap
        • A general edited list of requested enhancements: WishList
        • Particular enhancements:
                • Concept Guide
                • Budgets
                • Credit Notes
        • Old discussions about enhancement requests that have been implemented.
                • Upgrade from 1.8.9 to 1.8.10 and HBCI online banking support
        • Discussion about the License

{END}------------------------- ---------

Under Future Developments, I think that the Particular Enhancements and Old Discussions could be eliminated. Given that the WishList page says that it is irrelevant, perhaps it should go too (not to mention the entire page).

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Re: Wiki Landing Page

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by doncram

> On May 27, 2017, at 5:03 PM, doncram <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Could someone please open a page at
> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox>  for me and David T. to edit
> at.  :)  I am not allowed to create a new page.  Or I can wait a few more
> days and see whether I automatically get rights to create new wiki pages,
> which I was told may happen after being emailconfirmed for a week.
>

David T. can create a page should he feels so motivated.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: Wiki Landing Page

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by Adrien Monteleone

> On May 27, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> FYI, I don’t believe the help or the guide comes with the Mac bundle either. I tried the links in the help menu for both and nothing happened. I should think if they aren’t installed, they should at least point to the appropriate locations on the web. (I think there is already a bug for this)
>

Nope, they're included in the bundle and open in your default browser. Context help buttons even open the right page of Help.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: Wiki Landing Page

Adrien Monteleone
Thanks, I’ll have to try installing again. Maybe something is amiss with the bundle I downloaded. I’m still getting no response from those menu entries. And I don’t see any help buttons in any window anywhere. Not sure where those ‘Context help buttons’ are supposed to be.


> On May 27, 2017, at 11:12 PM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On May 27, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> FYI, I don’t believe the help or the guide comes with the Mac bundle either. I tried the links in the help menu for both and nothing happened. I should think if they aren’t installed, they should at least point to the appropriate locations on the web. (I think there is already a bug for this)
>>
>
> Nope, they're included in the bundle and open in your default browser. Context help buttons even open the right page of Help.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>

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Re: Wiki Landing Page

Adrien Monteleone
I see some buttons now in the business features. But that’s all. Those don’t work either.

> On May 27, 2017, at 11:25 PM, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks, I’ll have to try installing again. Maybe something is amiss with the bundle I downloaded. I’m still getting no response from those menu entries. And I don’t see any help buttons in any window anywhere. Not sure where those ‘Context help buttons’ are supposed to be.
>
>
>> On May 27, 2017, at 11:12 PM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On May 27, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> FYI, I don’t believe the help or the guide comes with the Mac bundle either. I tried the links in the help menu for both and nothing happened. I should think if they aren’t installed, they should at least point to the appropriate locations on the web. (I think there is already a bug for this)
>>>
>>
>> Nope, they're included in the bundle and open in your default browser. Context help buttons even open the right page of Help.
>>
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>>
>

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Re: Wiki Landing Page

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by Adrien Monteleone

> On May 27, 2017, at 9:25 PM, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks, I’ll have to try installing again. Maybe something is amiss with the bundle I downloaded. I’m still getting no response from those menu entries. And I don’t see any help buttons in any window anywhere. Not sure where those ‘Context help buttons’ are supposed to be.

Seems pretty unlikely that a download error could lose the documentation and still have a valid signature. More likely your default browser is rejecting the page load signal for some reason. Eh, what locale do you use? It occurs to me that I might have messed up so that it works only

The help buttons are mostly on dialog boxes. I just checked the "Edit Account" one to make sure it was working.

Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: Wiki Landing Page

John Ralls-2

> On May 27, 2017, at 9:49 PM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On May 27, 2017, at 9:25 PM, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, I’ll have to try installing again. Maybe something is amiss with the bundle I downloaded. I’m still getting no response from those menu entries. And I don’t see any help buttons in any window anywhere. Not sure where those ‘Context help buttons’ are supposed to be.
>
> Seems pretty unlikely that a download error could lose the documentation and still have a valid signature. More likely your default browser is rejecting the page load signal for some reason. Eh, what locale do you use? It occurs to me that I might have messed up so that it works only

Oops, got distracted and hit send before I was finished. I might have messed up so that it works only if your locale matches one of the existing translations, English, German, Italian, and Japanese. I see that I forgot to add the new Portuguese docs to the bundle.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: Wiki Landing Page

GnuCash - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2
I'll put my proposed page up in a day or two. I just hope it doesn't become the next "Draft Concept guide" on the wiki. 
Is there a way to set a "destroy by" date on a wiki page? 
David

 
 
  On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 9:09, John Ralls<[hidden email]> wrote:  

On May 27, 2017, at 5:03 PM, doncram <[hidden email]> wrote:
Could someone please open a page at
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox  for me and David T. to edit
at.  :)  I am not allowed to create a new page.  Or I can wait a few more
days and see whether I automatically get rights to create new wiki pages,
which I was told may happen after being emailconfirmed for a week.



David T. can create a page should he feels so motivated.
Regards,John Ralls
 
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Re: Wiki Landing Page

John Ralls-2

> On May 27, 2017, at 10:35 PM, David T. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'll put my proposed page up in a day or two. I just hope it doesn't become the next "Draft Concept guide" on the wiki.
>
> Is there a way to set a "destroy by" date on a wiki page?

Not that I know of. You could add something like "Best Before June 30 2017" to the title.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: Wiki Landing Page

Adrien Monteleone
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2
> On May 27, 2017, at 11:52 PM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On May 27, 2017, at 9:49 PM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On May 27, 2017, at 9:25 PM, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, I’ll have to try installing again. Maybe something is amiss with the bundle I downloaded. I’m still getting no response from those menu entries. And I don’t see any help buttons in any window anywhere. Not sure where those ‘Context help buttons’ are supposed to be.
>>
>> Seems pretty unlikely that a download error could lose the documentation and still have a valid signature. More likely your default browser is rejecting the page load signal for some reason. Eh, what locale do you use? It occurs to me that I might have messed up so that it works only

I didn’t think a corrupt download would cause that either, but wasn’t sure what might be the issue.
>
> Oops, got distracted and hit send before I was finished. I might have messed up so that it works only if your locale matches one of the existing translations, English, German, Italian, and Japanese. I see that I forgot to add the new Portuguese docs to the bundle.

My locale is English-US. My default browser is Firefox. It normally runs in private mode. Perhaps that has something to do with it? I’ll test with private mode off and I’ll also test with other browsers as the default and see what happens. I’ll also test FF with no extensions. One of them might be interfering. (I suspect uBlock Origin as that is usually the culprit when something isn’t working right)

>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>

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Re: Wiki Landing Page

GnuCash - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuCash - Dev mailing list
OK, I have created wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Wikihomesandbox <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Wikihomesandbox> with my proposed changes.

David

> On May 28, 2017, at 10:35 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'll put my proposed page up in a day or two. I just hope it doesn't become the next "Draft Concept guide" on the wiki.
> Is there a way to set a "destroy by" date on a wiki page?
> David
>
>
>
>  On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 9:09, John Ralls<[hidden email]> wrote:  
>
> On May 27, 2017, at 5:03 PM, doncram <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Could someone please open a page at
> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox  for me and David T. to edit
> at.  :)  I am not allowed to create a new page.  Or I can wait a few more
> days and see whether I automatically get rights to create new wiki pages,
> which I was told may happen after being emailconfirmed for a week.
>
>
>
> David T. can create a page should he feels so motivated.
> Regards,John Ralls
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel

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Re: Wiki Landing Page

doncram
Hi David T. and jralls.   Thanks David T. for doing that.  And now 7 days
have gone by and I find I can create pages in the Wiki, also.   I hope you
don't mind I am taking some bold steps to try to move this along better, in
my view, and to avoid confusion, although it may temporarily cause some
confusion among just us.

The version that David T. created at wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Wikihomesandbox had
some content that David T. is proposing, but it was not a "sandbox" like I
was meaning to suggest, because it was not a full version of the proposed
new mainpage.  The point with the sandbox is to have a full version that
people can review and see is okay.  It is too confusing to talk about
changes otherwise, given short available time/attention from very few
editors/developers around.  A new proposal should be crystal clear.  Also,
it was not placed at a subpage of the mainpage, which I find potentially
confusing.  Also, the page did not start as a copy of the mainpage, so
diffs will not show what was changed.  We want it to be easy for editors to
see what was changed.

It was good in that it did self-identify at the top what it was intended to
be, but that itself is a little confusing, because that self-identification
is meant not to be included in the new mainpage.  I am reminded that in
Wikipedia, a sandbox for a protected page is identified by a boxed template
displaying at the top, which is very clearly separate from the text that
follows.  I will try to find or create such a template for use within this
GnuCash wiki.

The way I want to proceed is to create a full new version of mainpage, at
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox.   So just now I copied in the
entire content of the GnuCash mainpage, itself, to there, to start a page.
Except for an external link to Paktpub publishing company, which a spam
filter would not allow me to keep.   Then I made the changes that I think
David T. is suggesting, i.e. to replace the Documentation section with his
drafted text, etc.  I removed most of the mainpage text, and copy-pasted
his entire content in, instead.

Please see [
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/index.php?title=GnuCash%2Fsandbox&type=revision&diff=12690&oldid=12687
this diff], which shows what I temporarily understand to be David T.'s
intended changes to the mainpage.   David T., I bet that is not completely
the new version of mainpage that you intended.  Perhaps you intended to
keep some existing sections besides the leading one?  Please make further
revisions there.

At the page you created, I put a link to the new sandbox page.  I hope you
don't mind.  In a wiki, it is possible to revert back to the old version of
a page, so nothing is lost.  If you do mind, and want to continue
developing there instead of at the new sandbox page, then unfortunately I
think it will be more confusing, and my effort to "help" now will turn out
to have hurt rather than helped.  But I could then try to help by
deleting/undoing everything I have now done, so as to try to erase any sign
of disagreement about how to proceed.  (But then, I would find it hard to
support your suggested changes, because for me it is hard to see what the
suggested changes are... so I would probably just say nothing further on
how the wiki mainpage should appear, and I would try to make contributions
elsewhere.)

What I would prefer is for you both to make revisions to the
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox, and perhaps also to have some
discussion at the Talk page of the mainpage about whether it is ready or
not (or such discussion can happen in emails).

Hope this helps, knock on wood
Don

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 11:49 PM, David T. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> OK, I have created wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Wikihomesandbox with my proposed
> changes.
>
> David
>
> On May 28, 2017, at 10:35 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'll put my proposed page up in a day or two. I just hope it doesn't
> become the next "Draft Concept guide" on the wiki.
> Is there a way to set a "destroy by" date on a wiki page?
> David
>
>
>
>  On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 9:09, John Ralls<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On May 27, 2017, at 5:03 PM, doncram <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Could someone please open a page at
> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox  for me and David T. to edit
> at.  :)  I am not allowed to create a new page.  Or I can wait a few more
> days and see whether I automatically get rights to create new wiki pages,
> which I was told may happen after being emailconfirmed for a week.
>
>
>
> David T. can create a page should he feels so motivated.
> Regards,John Ralls
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>
>
>
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Re: Wiki Landing Page

doncram
About the suggested content now at
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox, one objection that I have is
that it refers readers to a Documentation page at the main gnucash.org
website which provides nothing for them (it only contains links to the Help
manual and the Tutorial and Concept Guide, and no other documentation).
Specifically, the current content includes:

"For the latest documentation (i.e., unstable releases of the
documentation), or to get documentation for other languages or earlier
releases, see the [http://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml Documentation] page on
the GnuCash.org website."

It seems like a false statement, that a reader could get latest
documentation or anything else there.  The content already does link to
versions of the Help manual and the Tutorial and Concept Guide.  Are you
suggesting those are not the latest versions?  Should the content clarify
what versions they are?

I am sort of afraid it may be impossible to come to any agreement about any
wording, because there are too many people involved (and I guess I am now
part of the problem).  I do hope that I am helping by suggesting that a
clear proposal needs to be made by a complete new version at the sandbox.
The version there is deficient in my view in this one small way, at least.
 --Don
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Re: Wiki Landing Page

John Ralls-2

> On May 29, 2017, at 10:24 AM, doncram <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> About the suggested content now at http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash/sandbox, one objection that I have is that it refers readers to a Documentation page at the main gnucash.org website which provides nothing for them (it only contains links to the Help manual and the Tutorial and Concept Guide, and no other documentation). Specifically, the current content includes:
>
> "For the latest documentation (i.e., unstable releases of the documentation), or to get documentation for other languages or earlier releases, see the [http://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml Documentation] page on the GnuCash.org website."
>
> It seems like a false statement, that a reader could get latest documentation or anything else there.  The content already does link to versions of the Help manual and the Tutorial and Concept Guide.  Are you suggesting those are not the latest versions?  Should the content clarify what versions they are?  
>
> I am sort of afraid it may be impossible to come to any agreement about any wording, because there are too many people involved (and I guess I am now part of the problem).  I do hope that I am helping by suggesting that a clear proposal needs to be made by a complete new version at the sandbox.  The version there is deficient in my view in this one small way, at least.  --Don
>

Don,

Why do you think that there's nothing useful on http://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml? I don't like the implication that the "unstable" documentation should be considered the "latest" for many users (any differences generally reflect changes in the development branch of GnuCash), but the rest of the sentence is absolutely correct. It could go further by saying that PDF, ePub, and mobi downloads are also available there.

Regards,
John Ralls

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