Re: gnucash update on debian errors, then stops

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Re: gnucash update on debian errors, then stops

Lincoln A Baxter
On Thu, 2017-08-03 at 21:16 +0200, John Ralls wrote:

> > On Aug 3, 2017, at 8:37 PM, Tommy Trussell <[hidden email]
> m> wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 8:24 PM, John Griessen <[hidden email]
> om>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> I have not been able to upgrade gnucash for a while now.
> >> 
> >> Will there be a usable gnucash in the next debian release?
> >> If not, why not?
> >> 
> >> I still use this version on debian stretch/testing/frozen, soon to
> be the
> >> new released debian stable:
> >> 
> > 
> > For now I presume you might switch to using the version at
> getdeb.net
> > though I don't know your particular requirements. Another option,
> of
> > course, is to build it yourself. See https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/
> Debian
> > though it looks like a lot on that page is kindof stale, and it
> doesn't
> > link you to the pages describing how to build from git or a tarball
> -- see
> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Building
> > 
> > HOWEVER I have been seeing warnings from Debian for several weeks
> now about
> > GnuCash's impending removal from Testing.
> > 
> > In past years this has been because of a packaging issue, which
> always
> > seems to get resolved by the maintainer before the deadline and
> things go
> > on normally.
> > 
> > This time it was apparently more fundamental -- the warnings were
> because
> > GnuCash depends upon webkitgtk:
> > 
> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=866671
> > 
> > "webkitgtk: Unmaintained, not suitable for buster"
> > 
> > Again I presumed this is a fairly straightforward issue, but on
> July 31st I
> > saw this email:
> > 
> > > Debian testing watch <[hidden email]>
> >> to gnucash
> >> FYI: The status of the gnucash source package
> >> in Debian's testing distribution has changed.
> >>  Previous version: 1:2.6.17-1
> >>  Current version:  (not in testing)
> >>  Hint: <https://release.debian.org/britney/hints/auto-removals>
> >>    Bug #790204: gnucash: depends on libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 which is
> deprecated
> >> The script that generates this mail tries to extract removal
> >> reasons from comments in the britney hint files. Those comments
> >> were not originally meant to be machine readable, so if the
> >> reason for removing your package seems to be nonsense, it is
> >> probably the reporting script that got confused. Please check the
> >> actual hints file before you complain about meaningless removals.
> > 
> > 
> > Here's the link to that bug:
> > 
> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=790204
> > 
> > The same volunteer has maintained the Debian GnuCash package for
> years. I
> > presume he might have contacted the GnuCash developers for
> guidance, but I
> > haven't noticed any messages from him go across the gnucash-dev
> email list.
> > 
> > I HAVE seen discussions about updating the webkit dependencies, but
> if
> > there was any particular urgency I didn't notice.
>
> Yes, the webkit1 dependency will be replaced with webkit2 for Unix
> (webkit2gtk doesn't support windows) in 2.8.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
Hi John (and Dev's)

I'm listening mostly silently on the the devel list, and seeing LOT of
refactoring going on for 2.8.  But I'm having trouble reconciling the
statement above with respect to webkit2gtk, and the notes on the devel
list about switching to Gtk3/Webkit4gtk3 (Subject: Timeline and goals
for Guncash vv2.8.).


I've very concerned about Gnucash being removed from Debian
testing.  Not just because I use it... but also because many, many
distributions are based on Debian Testing and Debian Stable.  Including
Ubuntu which is quite popular, probably most popular.   I wouldn't be
surprised if 50% or more of GC linux users use Debian or a Debian
derived distribution.

Can the group make a clear statement on the gnucash user list about the
plan and time line for getting Gnucash back in Debian? If the wait is
long for 2.8, should we be thinking about a maintenance release for
2.6, if for no other reason than to get it back into Debian?

Thanks,

Lincoln

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Re: gnucash update on debian errors, then stops

John Ralls

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 5:09 AM, Lincoln A Baxter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2017-08-03 at 21:16 +0200, John Ralls wrote:
>> > On Aug 3, 2017, at 8:37 PM, Tommy Trussell <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 8:24 PM, John Griessen <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I have not been able to upgrade gnucash for a while now.
>> >>
>> >> Will there be a usable gnucash in the next debian release?
>> >> If not, why not?
>> >>
>> >> I still use this version on debian stretch/testing/frozen, soon to be the
>> >> new released debian stable:
>> >>
>> >
>> > For now I presume you might switch to using the version at getdeb.net
>> > though I don't know your particular requirements. Another option, of
>> > course, is to build it yourself. See https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Debian <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Debian>
>> > though it looks like a lot on that page is kindof stale, and it doesn't
>> > link you to the pages describing how to build from git or a tarball -- see
>> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Building <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Building>
>> >
>> > HOWEVER I have been seeing warnings from Debian for several weeks now about
>> > GnuCash's impending removal from Testing.
>> >
>> > In past years this has been because of a packaging issue, which always
>> > seems to get resolved by the maintainer before the deadline and things go
>> > on normally.
>> >
>> > This time it was apparently more fundamental -- the warnings were because
>> > GnuCash depends upon webkitgtk:
>> >
>> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=866671 <https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=866671>
>> >
>> > "webkitgtk: Unmaintained, not suitable for buster"
>> >
>> > Again I presumed this is a fairly straightforward issue, but on July 31st I
>> > saw this email:
>> >
>> > > Debian testing watch <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>> >> to gnucash
>> >> FYI: The status of the gnucash source package
>> >> in Debian's testing distribution has changed.
>> >>  Previous version: 1:2.6.17-1
>> >>  Current version:  (not in testing)
>> >>  Hint: <https://release.debian.org/britney/hints/auto-removals <https://release.debian.org/britney/hints/auto-removals>>
>> >>    Bug #790204: gnucash: depends on libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 which is deprecated
>> >> The script that generates this mail tries to extract removal
>> >> reasons from comments in the britney hint files. Those comments
>> >> were not originally meant to be machine readable, so if the
>> >> reason for removing your package seems to be nonsense, it is
>> >> probably the reporting script that got confused. Please check the
>> >> actual hints file before you complain about meaningless removals.
>> >
>> >
>> > Here's the link to that bug:
>> >
>> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=790204 <https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=790204>
>> >
>> > The same volunteer has maintained the Debian GnuCash package for years. I
>> > presume he might have contacted the GnuCash developers for guidance, but I
>> > haven't noticed any messages from him go across the gnucash-dev email list.
>> >
>> > I HAVE seen discussions about updating the webkit dependencies, but if
>> > there was any particular urgency I didn't notice.
>>
>> Yes, the webkit1 dependency will be replaced with webkit2 for Unix (webkit2gtk doesn't support windows) in 2.8.
>>
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>>
> Hi John (and Dev's)
>
> I'm listening mostly silently on the the devel list, and seeing LOT of refactoring going on for 2.8. But I'm having trouble reconciling the statement above with respect to webkit2gtk, and the notes on the devel list about switching to Gtk3/Webkit4gtk3 (Subject: Timeline and goals for Guncash vv2.8.).
>
> I've very concerned about Gnucash being removed from Debian testing. Not just because I use it... but also because many, many distributions are based on Debian Testing and Debian Stable. Including Ubuntu which is quite popular, probably most popular.   I wouldn't be surprised if 50% or more of GC linux users use Debian or a Debian derived distribution.
>
> Can the group make a clear statement on the gnucash user list about the plan and time line for getting Gnucash back in Debian? If the wait is long for 2.8, should we be thinking about a maintenance release for 2.6, if for no other reason than to get it back into Debian?

Lincoln,

Geert's trying to get a 2.7.0 release ready for the end of the month when I get back from vacation. It will have WebKit2Gtk4 and if Sébastien wants to pick it up for Debian Testing he can. Once we have some users banging on 2.7 we can evaluate whether we need the full 6 month cycle to release 2.8 or can accelerate it. Do you happen to know when Ubuntu makes their packaging decisions for their April release?

And no, while we will continue maintenance releases of 2.6 every 3 months until 2.8.0 is out we're not going to try to back-port Gtk3 into a maintenance release. That's not maintenance.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: gnucash update on debian errors, then stops

Tommy Trussell
On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:45 AM, John Ralls <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> > On Aug 11, 2017, at 5:09 AM, Lincoln A Baxter <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Can the group make a clear statement on the gnucash user list about the
> plan and time line for getting Gnucash back in Debian? If the wait is long
> for 2.8, should we be thinking about a maintenance release for 2.6, if for
> no other reason than to get it back into Debian?
>
> Lincoln,
>
> Geert's trying to get a 2.7.0 release ready for the end of the month when
> I get back from vacation. It will have WebKit2Gtk4 and if Sébastien wants
> to pick it up for Debian Testing he can. Once we have some users banging on
> 2.7 we can evaluate whether we need the full 6 month cycle to release 2.8
> or can accelerate it. Do you happen to know when Ubuntu makes their
> packaging decisions for their April release?
>

In the most recent LTS (Long Term Support) releases (which a few other
distros base their repository upon), Ubuntu took the last "snapshot" of
Debian testing in February before the April LTS release. SO it probably
won't be extremely critical until early next year. I haven't seen dates for
18.04 LTS; they don't usually set the LTS dates until around the time of
the fall non-LTS release.

Last year, when I saw that an especially buggy version of GnuCash was going
into the Ubuntu LTS release, I kicked off the process of getting a newer
version into the Ubuntu repository. I detailed the success of the process
in my message to the gnucash-user and gnucash-devel lists dated April 18,
2016 titled "GnuCash 2.6.12 made it to Ubuntu LTS [WAS: Re: Ubuntu LTS
GnuCash "Frozen" at 2.6.9; exception needed]."

Presumably the Debian GnuCash package will be upgraded and reinstated in
Debian before February 2018.

HOWEVER -- The next Non-LTS release (17.10) is scheduled for October 24th.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule

I am sure a few GnuCash users may upgrade Ubuntu with every release every
six months. (I don't, at least not for the systems I use for GnuCash.)

I just looked and GnuCash 2.6.15 is still in the Artful repository.
Assuming we want to make sure GnuCash stays in this next non-LTS release,
the freeze happens August 24th, and someone who is planning to use it will
want to watch its status in case we need to petition to keep the package
included despite its Debian dependency issue.

Any Ubuntu users seeing this who want to keep GnuCash in Artful Aardvark
this October -- you'll need to have a system or a virtual image capable of
running the Ubuntu snapshots for 17.10, and can verify that it continues to
build without errors for the release in October.

I presume one of us might be able to get a sponsor at Ubuntu if necessary.
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