Re: Read *.gnucash

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Re: Read *.gnucash

Geert Janssens-4
On donderdag 18 mei 2017 13:45:53 CEST Oleg Linkin wrote:
> Hello
> I want to create mobila application for SailfishOS which will work as
> mobile part of gnucash. Where I can get information about format of
> *.gnucash files?
>
> Thank you

This is a question for gnucash-devel rather than gnucash-user.

There is not that much information about the gnucash file format and I believe
just knowing the file format is not sufficient to write an app that correctly
handles it.

Isn't Sailfish OS similar to linux ?

Rather than rewriting from scratch I would suggest to try and build the
gnucash sources on SailfishOS and build a SailfishOS specific user interface
on top of that.

While the initial learning curve would probably be higher in this case I'm
pretty sure your app will benefit from this in the long run (and probably the
gnucash project itself as well).

Personally I would be very interested in such an approach. I lack the time and
SailfishOS experience, otherwise I would have attempted this myself already...

Regards,

Geert
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Re: Read *.gnucash

Geert Janssens-4
Again, this is a discussion that should be held on gnucash-devel, not gnucash-
user. Please follow up on that list. I have now removed gnucash-user from this
conversation.

On donderdag 18 mei 2017 14:37:42 CEST Oleg Linkin wrote:
> Sailfish support only QML as gui
>
That's why I proposed to start from the current code and apply a different gui
on top of that (QML based in this case).

Such a project could be the spark needed to migrate the gnucash program itself
away from Gtk to QML in the future.

We're not married to Gtk and have been discussing migrating away from it for
quite some time. It hasn't happened yet because the main developers are
currently occupied in migrating the old code base to C++.

A clean C++ interface would probably make a migration to QML a lot easier, but
it can be done in a different order as well if implementing a QML GUI is your
itch. I'd definitely support you in this.

Regards,

Geert
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Re: Read *.gnucash

Adonay Felipe Nogueira
NOTE: I won't be adding the individual people in my next reply. If you
want to continue following the discussion, please subscribe to
gnucash-devel.

Indeed, we'll discuss it in gnucash-devel from now on.

As I suggested earlier, although my reply doesn't appear, perhaps we can
keep GTK+ instead of migrating GnuCash entirely to QML.

This is a suggestion based on my personal opinion that the
multi-licensing Qt might be troublesome, specially considering the fact
that this practice of Qt can lead to fostering non-free software
instead. I know that GnuCash will be using the free/libre Qt, but the
next developers and the end users who receive a copy of Qt or
GnuCash-entirely-in-Qt might feel tempted to get the "commercial"
(/sic/) edition of Qt.

This problem of Qt can be countered in GnuCash's side by keeping the
current GNU GPL 2+ license, and fortunatelly, thanks to this, future
developers will have to comply with the license.

--
- [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com
  gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
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- Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
  aceito, mas não repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favoráveis ao
  /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de dúvida.
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Re: Read *.gnucash

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by Geert Janssens-4

> On May 18, 2017, at 5:37 AM, Oleg Linkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Sailfish support only QML as gui
>
> 2017-05-18 15:14 GMT+03:00 Adonay Felipe Nogueira <[hidden email]>:
>
>> If SailfishOS can make use of GTK+, then perhaps it would indeed be most
>> beneficial to GnuCash community that you use the same source files
>> rather than making a whole new project.
>>
>> I don't know if GnuCash already has this, but I guess what must be done
>> is try to make it so that the GTK interface acts responsively based on
>> window size --- so that in cases where the GnuCash window gets shrunk,
>> the buttoms get grouped inside another one like "...". This of course
>> assumes that the device *doesn't* have zooming and has a tiny screen.


Have a look at the "Cutecash" build of GnuCash. You'll find the code in https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/tree/master/src/gnc <https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/tree/master/src/gnc> and https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/tree/master/src/gtkmm <https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/tree/master/src/gtkmm>. It builds only with CMake, pass "-DWITH_CUTECASH=ON -DWITH_GNUCASH=OFF" in the cmake args. It doesn't support all of the features but I believe that it has enough to make a useful mobile app.

As Adonay observed you'll need to go through the UI to make it adapt to small screens.

Please keep in touch as you work through this and do your work with a view to integrating the build into the mainline GnuCash sources.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: Read *.gnucash

Geert Janssens-4
In reply to this post by Adonay Felipe Nogueira
On donderdag 18 mei 2017 16:18:01 CEST Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote:
> NOTE: I won't be adding the individual people in my next reply. If you
> want to continue following the discussion, please subscribe to
> gnucash-devel.
>
> Indeed, we'll discuss it in gnucash-devel from now on.
>
> As I suggested earlier, although my reply doesn't appear, perhaps we can
> keep GTK+ instead of migrating GnuCash entirely to QML.
>
We can't keep Gtk+ for the simple reason it prevents us from porting to new
platforms such as Android, IOS and (as mentioned on this thread) SailfishOS.

These platforms are becoming increasingly important. So we need a gui toolkit
that's supported by all of them unless we want to reinvent the wheel with each
port. Spoiler alert: we don't have the manpower for that.

Even with a single toolkit that fits all platforms we'll still have our hands
full in making sure the UI works satisfactorily on all form factors.

For all I've seen so far Qt/QML is the most promising option IMO together with
wxWidgets. In fact I don't know any other viable candidates.

> This is a suggestion based on my personal opinion that the
> multi-licensing Qt might be troublesome, specially considering the fact
> that this practice of Qt can lead to fostering non-free software
> instead.

Personally I don't worry about this. Qt has been around for a very long time,
has been bought by several companies and each time has managed to stay open
source. That a company uses a multi-licensing scheme to make money off of its
investment can equally be seen as a fair thing to do. Corporations are not
into charity after all.

Note I hesitated to write this as I don't want to turn this into a lengthy
discussion. However I believe as a core gnucash developer I should at least
present my personal view on this so others can draw their own conclusions
about it if they wish to.

> I know that GnuCash will be using the free/libre Qt, but the
> next developers and the end users who receive a copy of Qt or
> GnuCash-entirely-in-Qt might feel tempted to get the "commercial"
> (/sic/) edition of Qt.

Well I can reassure you on that bit: there will never be a "GnuCash entirely
in Qt". At best a GUI entirely in Qt/QML. The core library (our "engine" and
related sources) is in pure C++.

>
> This problem of Qt can be countered in GnuCash's side by keeping the
> current GNU GPL 2+ license, and fortunatelly, thanks to this, future
> developers will have to comply with the license.

That's how I see it as well. The choice for that license should be sufficient
assurance to keep gnucash free.

Regards,

Geert
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Re: Read *.gnucash

Adonay Felipe Nogueira
Thank you very much for the replies so far.

As a response to the previous replies, I also want to avoid long
discussion in this subject (perhaps better suited for another subject),
but I want to briefely note that, in order to advance free/libre
software, free/libre software doesn't need to be gratis or "public",
because you can charge for it, or the services based on it, and also
keep copies in "a drawer" --- only distributing copies for those who pay
for it, so there is no need to keep a public repository.

Making money by adapting "development models" such as "open core" will
simply result in possibly-non-free "premium" software, and free/libre
crippleware, as was pointed out by Bradley Kuhn in
[[http://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/copyleft-for-the-next-decade-a-comprehensive-plan/]]
and as is being discussed at
[[https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Free_Software_Directory_talk:Antifeatures#Bait_and_surrender.2C_MySQL_examples]]. Historically,
we once saw no problem with this practice, but seeing the practice as a
way to "extort" the developers of downstream projects or even the
end-user changed the long-standing considerations about the issue.

Finally, I thank you very much for keeping the current license of
GnuCash, and *personally*, I think it's OK to migrate it --- or some
parts of it --- to Qt/QML, although I'm unable to produce a full review
of the consequences in various fields of interest that might afect our
project.
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