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Groups.io

Plutocrat
So excuse me for bringing up the issue of alternative mailing list software again, but I only just became aware of groups.io, and my initial impression is favorable.

As has been noted before there are a number of shortcomings of the current mailing list format, most obviously the difficulty of searching them (resulting in repeat user questions), and the lack of choice between a web interface and plain email. I believe Groups.io addresses both of these problems.

It seems to be free, at least as long as you don't upload lots of images, and the users can be migrated across by pasting a list of emails into the admin interface. The remaining obstacle would be migrating the archives across, which the head coder, Mark, seems to indicate is possible, without going into details.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to stir up flame wars, I was just putting it on the development radar in case its a viable option.

P.
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Re: Groups.io

Liz
On Thu, 11 May 2017 13:18:30 +0800
Plutocrat <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So excuse me for bringing up the issue of alternative mailing list
> software again, but I only just became aware of groups.io, and my
> initial impression is favorable.
>
> As has been noted before there are a number of shortcomings of the
> current mailing list format, most obviously the difficulty of
> searching them (resulting in repeat user questions), and the lack of
> choice between a web interface and plain email. I believe Groups.io
> addresses both of these problems.
>
> It seems to be free, at least as long as you don't upload lots of
> images, and the users can be migrated across by pasting a list of
> emails into the admin interface. The remaining obstacle would be
> migrating the archives across, which the head coder, Mark, seems to
> indicate is possible, without going into details.
>
> Anyway, I wasn't trying to stir up flame wars, I was just putting it
> on the development radar in case its a viable option.
>
> P.
>

I'm on a few mailgroups. One has transferred recently from Yahoo to
Groups.io, and the overall impression on that list was favourable.

Liz
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Re: Groups.io

Derek Atkins-3
In reply to this post by Plutocrat
It looks like groups.io is a hosted platform,  not a package we could install and run ourselves.

I'm still waiting for mailman3.

As for searching.... that's a separate issue and can be solved piecemeal. Indeed, we could potentially even add a framed google search if someone wants to create the appropriate pages...  does some html hacker want to donate this work?

-derek

Sent from my mobile. Please excuse any typos.

----- Reply message -----
From: "Liz" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: Groups.io
Date: Thu, May 11, 2017 6:04 AM

On Thu, 11 May 2017 13:18:30 +0800
Plutocrat <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So excuse me for bringing up the issue of alternative mailing list
> software again, but I only just became aware of groups.io, and my
> initial impression is favorable.
>
> As has been noted before there are a number of shortcomings of the
> current mailing list format, most obviously the difficulty of
> searching them (resulting in repeat user questions), and the lack of
> choice between a web interface and plain email. I believe Groups.io
> addresses both of these problems.
>
> It seems to be free, at least as long as you don't upload lots of
> images, and the users can be migrated across by pasting a list of
> emails into the admin interface. The remaining obstacle would be
> migrating the archives across, which the head coder, Mark, seems to
> indicate is possible, without going into details.
>
> Anyway, I wasn't trying to stir up flame wars, I was just putting it
> on the development radar in case its a viable option.
>
> P.
>

I'm on a few mailgroups. One has transferred recently from Yahoo to
Groups.io, and the overall impression on that list was favourable.

Liz
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Re: Groups.io

Adonay Felipe Nogueira
In reply to this post by Plutocrat
I think that Namazu would be a good *complement* that allows this
current mailing list to be searched for.

A lot of mailing lists at GNU.org and LibrePlanet.org are using it.

I don't know how to install it, but I do use it in some mailing lists
from time to time.

Namazu is registered in the Free Software Directory:
[[https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Namazu]].

I said "complement" because there is no need to change the host, or
mailing list server software, it just works with GNU Mailman.

Also, keeping GNU Mailman avoids forcing the visitor to use non-free
software automatically through JavaScript, for the reasons why we must
avoid this problem, see
[[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html]],
[[https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/restore-online-freedom/]]
and as a complement focused on security, see
[[https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/the-surreptitious-assault-on-privacy-security-and-freedom/]].

If there is really interest in changing the mailing list server
software, then we would probably need developers aware of the JavaScript
trap, so that these developers can make sure that the *visitor*/end-user
of the website receives the software's essential freedoms for every
piece of JavaScript he is forced to run (even if we know that such page
can be browsed with JavaScript disabled, because not every computer user
in the world is having JavaScript disabled by default).

NOTE I'm not a developer, but I'm like an "advertiser"/speaker of the
importance of all aspects of free/libre software movement, while also
offering basic consulting and basic training services related to
free/libre software and its movement.


Respectfully, Adonay.
--
- [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com
  gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
  GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard
  que está no endereço acima aos teus contatos.
- Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
  aceito, mas não repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favoráveis ao
  /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de dúvida.
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Re: Groups.io

Derek Atkins-3
Hi,

We *WERE* using Namazu..  But then it got dropped by RH/Fedora back around
Fedora 12..  making it hard to maintain.  i tried for a while, but then it
just got too hard to keep up.  Last I checked (which, granted, was about 5
years ago) the project had pretty much stopped evolving.

-derek

On Thu, May 11, 2017 9:30 am, Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote:

> I think that Namazu would be a good *complement* that allows this
> current mailing list to be searched for.
>
> A lot of mailing lists at GNU.org and LibrePlanet.org are using it.
>
> I don't know how to install it, but I do use it in some mailing lists
> from time to time.
>
> Namazu is registered in the Free Software Directory:
> [[https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Namazu]].
>
> I said "complement" because there is no need to change the host, or
> mailing list server software, it just works with GNU Mailman.
>
> Also, keeping GNU Mailman avoids forcing the visitor to use non-free
> software automatically through JavaScript, for the reasons why we must
> avoid this problem, see
> [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html]],
> [[https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/restore-online-freedom/]]
> and as a complement focused on security, see
> [[https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/the-surreptitious-assault-on-privacy-security-and-freedom/]].
>
> If there is really interest in changing the mailing list server
> software, then we would probably need developers aware of the JavaScript
> trap, so that these developers can make sure that the *visitor*/end-user
> of the website receives the software's essential freedoms for every
> piece of JavaScript he is forced to run (even if we know that such page
> can be browsed with JavaScript disabled, because not every computer user
> in the world is having JavaScript disabled by default).
>
> NOTE I'm not a developer, but I'm like an "advertiser"/speaker of the
> importance of all aspects of free/libre software movement, while also
> offering basic consulting and basic training services related to
> free/libre software and its movement.
>
>
> Respectfully, Adonay.
> --
> - [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
> - Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com
>   gratis).
> - "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
>   GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard
>   que está no endereço acima aos teus contatos.
> - Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
>   aceito, mas não repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favoráveis ao
>   /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de dúvida.
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.


--
       Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
       [hidden email]             www.ihtfp.com
       Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: Groups.io

Adonay Felipe Nogueira
I wonder what exactly made it hard to maintian at our side... Was there
some customization you wanted to do? Or some bug you wanted to fix?

Perhaps other Namazu server software operators can join up to share
fixes and improvements, and perhaps even continue the Namazu project.

Also worth suggesting is: Talking with GNU.org and LibrePlanet.org
mailing lists system administrators (I think it's
[[mailto:[hidden email]]]), they may know people who are familiar with
the Namazu source files and way of working.
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Re: Groups.io

Adrien Monteleone
In reply to this post by Derek Atkins-3

> On May 11, 2017, at 6:31 AM, Derek Atkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It looks like groups.io is a hosted platform,  not a package we could install and run ourselves.
>
> I'm still waiting for mailman3.
>
> As for searching.... that's a separate issue and can be solved piecemeal. Indeed, we could potentially even add a framed google search if someone wants to create the appropriate pages...  does some html hacker want to donate this work?

If it is just HTML, PHP and CSS I volunteer. I don’t tread in JS but if it is a light requirement I suppose I could. I don’t mind including JS in the page, I just don’t know it enough yet to maintain or debug it.

Curiously, why does the built-in Mailman link to search return a 404? or is that supposed to link to a custom page? (I used to admin a list but it has been a while)

-Adrien

>
> -derek
>
> Sent from my mobile. Please excuse any typos.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Liz" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Groups.io
> Date: Thu, May 11, 2017 6:04 AM
>
> On Thu, 11 May 2017 13:18:30 +0800
> Plutocrat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> So excuse me for bringing up the issue of alternative mailing list
>> software again, but I only just became aware of groups.io, and my
>> initial impression is favorable.
>>
>> As has been noted before there are a number of shortcomings of the
>> current mailing list format, most obviously the difficulty of
>> searching them (resulting in repeat user questions), and the lack of
>> choice between a web interface and plain email. I believe Groups.io
>> addresses both of these problems.
>>
>> It seems to be free, at least as long as you don't upload lots of
>> images, and the users can be migrated across by pasting a list of
>> emails into the admin interface. The remaining obstacle would be
>> migrating the archives across, which the head coder, Mark, seems to
>> indicate is possible, without going into details.
>>
>> Anyway, I wasn't trying to stir up flame wars, I was just putting it
>> on the development radar in case its a viable option.
>>
>> P.
>>
>
> I'm on a few mailgroups. One has transferred recently from Yahoo to
> Groups.io, and the overall impression on that list was favourable.
>
> Liz
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

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Re: Groups.io

Derek Atkins-3
Hi,

On Thu, May 11, 2017 1:28 pm, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

>
>> On May 11, 2017, at 6:31 AM, Derek Atkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It looks like groups.io is a hosted platform,  not a package we could
>> install and run ourselves.
>>
>> I'm still waiting for mailman3.
>>
>> As for searching.... that's a separate issue and can be solved
>> piecemeal. Indeed, we could potentially even add a framed google search
>> if someone wants to create the appropriate pages...  does some html
>> hacker want to donate this work?
>
> If it is just HTML, PHP and CSS I volunteer. I don’t tread in JS but if it
> is a light requirement I suppose I could. I don’t mind including JS in the
> page, I just don’t know it enough yet to maintain or debug it.

Yeah, it should be doable with just HTML, CSS, and PHP.

> Curiously, why does the built-in Mailman link to search return a 404? or
> is that supposed to link to a custom page? (I used to admin a list but it
> has been a while)

It pointed to namazu.  :)

Once namazu went away, we eventually removed the pages, but didn't remove
the links to the search page.

> -Adrien

-derek

>
>>
>> -derek
>>
>> Sent from my mobile. Please excuse any typos.
>>
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "Liz" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Groups.io
>> Date: Thu, May 11, 2017 6:04 AM
>>
>> On Thu, 11 May 2017 13:18:30 +0800
>> Plutocrat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> So excuse me for bringing up the issue of alternative mailing list
>>> software again, but I only just became aware of groups.io, and my
>>> initial impression is favorable.
>>>
>>> As has been noted before there are a number of shortcomings of the
>>> current mailing list format, most obviously the difficulty of
>>> searching them (resulting in repeat user questions), and the lack of
>>> choice between a web interface and plain email. I believe Groups.io
>>> addresses both of these problems.
>>>
>>> It seems to be free, at least as long as you don't upload lots of
>>> images, and the users can be migrated across by pasting a list of
>>> emails into the admin interface. The remaining obstacle would be
>>> migrating the archives across, which the head coder, Mark, seems to
>>> indicate is possible, without going into details.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I wasn't trying to stir up flame wars, I was just putting it
>>> on the development radar in case its a viable option.
>>>
>>> P.
>>>
>>
>> I'm on a few mailgroups. One has transferred recently from Yahoo to
>> Groups.io, and the overall impression on that list was favourable.
>>
>> Liz
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> -----
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> -----
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.


--
       Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
       [hidden email]             www.ihtfp.com
       Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: Groups.io

Adrien Monteleone
I’m in the middle of a server installation and migration and some website customizations but I should be able to play with it a bit and have something by middle of next week, perhaps sooner.

-Adrien


> On May 11, 2017, at 12:53 PM, Derek Atkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, May 11, 2017 1:28 pm, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>>
>>> On May 11, 2017, at 6:31 AM, Derek Atkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> It looks like groups.io is a hosted platform,  not a package we could
>>> install and run ourselves.
>>>
>>> I'm still waiting for mailman3.
>>>
>>> As for searching.... that's a separate issue and can be solved
>>> piecemeal. Indeed, we could potentially even add a framed google search
>>> if someone wants to create the appropriate pages...  does some html
>>> hacker want to donate this work?
>>
>> If it is just HTML, PHP and CSS I volunteer. I don’t tread in JS but if it
>> is a light requirement I suppose I could. I don’t mind including JS in the
>> page, I just don’t know it enough yet to maintain or debug it.
>
> Yeah, it should be doable with just HTML, CSS, and PHP.
>
>> Curiously, why does the built-in Mailman link to search return a 404? or
>> is that supposed to link to a custom page? (I used to admin a list but it
>> has been a while)
>
> It pointed to namazu.  :)
>
> Once namazu went away, we eventually removed the pages, but didn't remove
> the links to the search page.
>
>> -Adrien
>
> -derek
>
>>
>>>
>>> -derek
>>>
>>> Sent from my mobile. Please excuse any typos.
>>>
>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>> From: "Liz" <[hidden email]>
>>> To: <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Groups.io
>>> Date: Thu, May 11, 2017 6:04 AM
>>>
>>> On Thu, 11 May 2017 13:18:30 +0800
>>> Plutocrat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So excuse me for bringing up the issue of alternative mailing list
>>>> software again, but I only just became aware of groups.io, and my
>>>> initial impression is favorable.
>>>>
>>>> As has been noted before there are a number of shortcomings of the
>>>> current mailing list format, most obviously the difficulty of
>>>> searching them (resulting in repeat user questions), and the lack of
>>>> choice between a web interface and plain email. I believe Groups.io
>>>> addresses both of these problems.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to be free, at least as long as you don't upload lots of
>>>> images, and the users can be migrated across by pasting a list of
>>>> emails into the admin interface. The remaining obstacle would be
>>>> migrating the archives across, which the head coder, Mark, seems to
>>>> indicate is possible, without going into details.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I wasn't trying to stir up flame wars, I was just putting it
>>>> on the development radar in case its a viable option.
>>>>
>>>> P.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm on a few mailgroups. One has transferred recently from Yahoo to
>>> Groups.io, and the overall impression on that list was favourable.
>>>
>>> Liz
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>> -----
>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>> -----
>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> -----
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
> --
>       Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
>       [hidden email]             www.ihtfp.com
>       Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: Groups.io

Derek Atkins-3
Thanks!
I would suggest looking at the gnucash htdocs repo to see how the current
site theming works; hooking into that would be ideal.
-derek

On Thu, May 11, 2017 3:00 pm, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

> I’m in the middle of a server installation and migration and some website
> customizations but I should be able to play with it a bit and have
> something by middle of next week, perhaps sooner.
>
> -Adrien
>
>
>> On May 11, 2017, at 12:53 PM, Derek Atkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, May 11, 2017 1:28 pm, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>>>
>>>> On May 11, 2017, at 6:31 AM, Derek Atkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It looks like groups.io is a hosted platform,  not a package we could
>>>> install and run ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still waiting for mailman3.
>>>>
>>>> As for searching.... that's a separate issue and can be solved
>>>> piecemeal. Indeed, we could potentially even add a framed google
>>>> search
>>>> if someone wants to create the appropriate pages...  does some html
>>>> hacker want to donate this work?
>>>
>>> If it is just HTML, PHP and CSS I volunteer. I don’t tread in JS but if
>>> it
>>> is a light requirement I suppose I could. I don’t mind including JS in
>>> the
>>> page, I just don’t know it enough yet to maintain or debug it.
>>
>> Yeah, it should be doable with just HTML, CSS, and PHP.
>>
>>> Curiously, why does the built-in Mailman link to search return a 404?
>>> or
>>> is that supposed to link to a custom page? (I used to admin a list but
>>> it
>>> has been a while)
>>
>> It pointed to namazu.  :)
>>
>> Once namazu went away, we eventually removed the pages, but didn't
>> remove
>> the links to the search page.
>>
>>> -Adrien
>>
>> -derek
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -derek
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my mobile. Please excuse any typos.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>> From: "Liz" <[hidden email]>
>>>> To: <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: Groups.io
>>>> Date: Thu, May 11, 2017 6:04 AM
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 11 May 2017 13:18:30 +0800
>>>> Plutocrat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So excuse me for bringing up the issue of alternative mailing list
>>>>> software again, but I only just became aware of groups.io, and my
>>>>> initial impression is favorable.
>>>>>
>>>>> As has been noted before there are a number of shortcomings of the
>>>>> current mailing list format, most obviously the difficulty of
>>>>> searching them (resulting in repeat user questions), and the lack of
>>>>> choice between a web interface and plain email. I believe Groups.io
>>>>> addresses both of these problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems to be free, at least as long as you don't upload lots of
>>>>> images, and the users can be migrated across by pasting a list of
>>>>> emails into the admin interface. The remaining obstacle would be
>>>>> migrating the archives across, which the head coder, Mark, seems to
>>>>> indicate is possible, without going into details.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I wasn't trying to stir up flame wars, I was just putting it
>>>>> on the development radar in case its a viable option.
>>>>>
>>>>> P.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm on a few mailgroups. One has transferred recently from Yahoo to
>>>> Groups.io, and the overall impression on that list was favourable.
>>>>
>>>> Liz
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>>> -----
>>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>>> _______________________________________________
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Re: Groups.io

aegross
In reply to this post by Plutocrat
Plutocrat wrote
 most obviously the difficulty of searching them (resulting in repeat user questions), and the lack of choice between a web interface and plain email.
Why not use Nabble? (http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com)  N.B.: I am not a shill for Nabble -- I have just found it handy for use with this forum.

AEG
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Re: Groups.io

Adonay Felipe Nogueira
It's the first time I'm hearing about Nabble, but it seems that it
requires the website visitor to use non-free software.

The page you linked has the following non-free software:

- [[/util/jquery-1.7.2.pack.js]].

  - This one might be non-free. This depends on whether "the license
    specified in the website's repository" exists, and also on how
    Nabble proprietors interprete the Expat License (the license in
    which jQuery 1.7.2 is provided by defautl), because the Expat
    doesn't require the complete corresponding source files to be made
    available somehow, it only allows you to "study", so it essentially
    tells you to "accept this chunk of unreadable phrases that do
    something and good luck trying to adapt it to your needs", although
    it *is* good practice *from free/libre software activists* to
    provide the complete corresponding source. See
    [[https://jquery.org/license/#web-sites]].

- [[/util/nabbledropdown-2.4.1.pack.js]].

- [[/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=javascript_library&v=102]].

- [[http://trk.blasma.com/trk5.js?290694]].

- All the things between the various "<script" and "</script>" tags.

NOTE This list isn't exhaustive, there might be more non-free software
being forced to the visitors in that page.

--
- [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com
  gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
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  que está no endereço acima aos teus contatos.
- Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
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Re: Groups.io

aegross
Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote
It's the first time I'm hearing about Nabble, but it seems that it
requires the website visitor to use non-free software.
Gnucash is using Nabble now.   Besides the link I posted earlier, the GnuCash wiki notes it on http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists.

I am not using any special software to access; just my browser.

AEG
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Re: Groups.io

Derek Atkins-3
Hi,

On Fri, May 12, 2017 3:27 pm, aegross wrote:
> Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote
>> It's the first time I'm hearing about Nabble, but it seems that it
>> requires the website visitor to use non-free software.
>
> Gnucash is using Nabble now.   Besides the link I posted earlier, the
> GnuCash wiki notes it on http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists.

Just a point of clarification.  GnuCash is not using Nabble.  Nabble is
self-contained service that happens to have chosen to include the GnuCash
mailing lists in their repertoire.  It was not something that any gnucash
developer requested of them, and indeed the gnucash developers have no
visibility into it.

There are a bunch of users that use nabble -- their messages get forwarded
to the mailing list and, if they are not subscribed, get moderated before
being sent through.

Regardless, nabble, like groups.io, is a hosted service.  It's not
something we could run/maintain ourselves which is the end goal.

> I am not using any special software to access; just my browser.
>
> AEG

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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-derek

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Re: Groups.io

Adonay Felipe Nogueira
In reply to this post by aegross
> I am not using any special software to access; just my browser.

That's the problem, website owners trick browsers into downloading and
using software automatically. You can take a proof of this by making a
simple .html document/page yourself, like so:

# Begin of file
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <body>
    <noscript>
      JavaScript disabled. Please answer this yourself: 2 + 2 = ?
    </noscript>
    <script>
      document.write("JavaScript enabled. The web browser will answer this for you: 2 + 2 = " + (2 + 2));
    </script>
  </body>
</html>
# End of file

As you can see: If JavaScript is disabled, your web browser won't be
tricked into running software automatically. Running software through
JavaScript isn't problematic. The problem is running *non-free* software
through JavaScript, because the language being used is made to run by
the visitor's web browser. This goes to show that the language used
doesn't matter.

Technical note: Some people advocate for a new web "client-side"
language, but changing the language doesn't change the fact that it's
still client-side, and most software is run automatically without a
standard way to check if it's free/libre software, and also will
probably not have a yes/no dialog or a whitelist.
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Re: Groups.io

Derek Atkins-3
   Adonay,
   While I appreciate your fervor for open source, I think this thread has
   gone well past appropriate for the gnucash list.
   Thanks,
   -derek
   Sent from my mobile. Please excuse any typos.
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Re: Groups.io

Adonay Felipe Nogueira
Indeed, I'm sorry about that.

I got carried away by Groups.io and Nabble. Now at least we know the
various options and possible advantages or disadvantages.
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Re: Groups.io

Derek Atkins
In reply to this post by Adonay Felipe Nogueira
Hi,

Adonay Felipe Nogueira <[hidden email]> writes:

> I wonder what exactly made it hard to maintian at our side... Was there
> some customization you wanted to do? Or some bug you wanted to fix?

I honestly don't recall the issue.  The package was removed from
RH/Fedora which made it more challenging.  Also, we did have some local
patches (which again, I don't recall), which needed to be kept in sync.
Keep in mind this was all over 5 years ago.

For what it's worth, the indexing was not nearly as good as Google.

> Perhaps other Namazu server software operators can join up to share
> fixes and improvements, and perhaps even continue the Namazu project.
>
> Also worth suggesting is: Talking with GNU.org and LibrePlanet.org
> mailing lists system administrators (I think it's
> [[mailto:[hidden email]]]), they may know people who are familiar with
> the Namazu source files and way of working.

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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-derek

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