[GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

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[GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

Christian Gruber
Hi, I'm currently looking through the (quite long) buglist on Gnucash
Bugzilla <https://bugs.gnucash.org/> to see, where I can provide help.
Unfortunatelly I'm a little bit frustrated, because of many entries,
which are still open (STATUS != RESOLVED), but haven't changed for years.

Which of them are still relevant? When is a bug outdated? Are some of
them maybe already resolved, but haven't been closed? Who actually
closes a bug, the author or the Gnucash maintainers? Are there any plans
to close outdated bugs?

I had a look on Bugzilla Administration
<https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Bugzilla_Administration> page, but this
didn't answer my questions.

Regards,
Christian

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Re: [GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

John Ralls-2


> On Oct 26, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Christian Gruber <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi, I'm currently looking through the (quite long) buglist on Gnucash Bugzilla <https://bugs.gnucash.org/> to see, where I can provide help. Unfortunatelly I'm a little bit frustrated, because of many entries, which are still open (STATUS != RESOLVED), but haven't changed for years.
>
> Which of them are still relevant? When is a bug outdated? Are some of them maybe already resolved, but haven't been closed? Who actually closes a bug, the author or the Gnucash maintainers? Are there any plans to close outdated bugs?
>
> I had a look on Bugzilla Administration <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Bugzilla_Administration> page, but this didn't answer my questions.


Christian,

The overall problem is too many bugs, not enough developer time to go through them, especially old ones. Yes, it's entirely possible that many of them have been subsequently fixed by someone working on something else and that someone didn't think to go looking for related bugs. Unfortunately it's equally likely that some of those old bugs are too hard to fix or even to find the cause, or that no developer ever even got interested in looking into them.

Which ones are still relevant is hard to determine: GnuCash is complex and there have been lots of bugs over the years that were revealed because of a corner case in someone's accounts, so just because a developer or tester can't reproduce a bug doesn't mean that it's invalid. I suppose one could declare a bug obsolete if the module that would have caused it is easily identifiable and that code has been substantially rewritten since, but determining that isn't necessarily easy. The only policy we have is that if a bug is marked "NEEDSINFO" and none has been provided after 3 Months it can be resolved as INCOMPLETE, usually with a note telling the reporter to reopen it if they ever get around to caring about it again.

It's nice but rare when the reporter closes a bug, so it usually falls to a developer.

Note that of the 1364 open GnuCash bugs, 489 are enhancement requests.

Non-enhancement bugs 2001-01-01 to 2010-12-31:  155
                     2011-01-01 to 2015-12-31:  296
                     2016-01-01 to 2016-12-31:   48
                     2017-01-01 to 2017-12-31:   77
                     2018-01-01 to 2018-12-31:  117
                     2019-01-01 to Now:         210

As an illustration of how old bugs can still be relevant, https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=88517 is the oldest open bug (from July 2002). It's about copying and pasting transactions, was last commented on in 2017, and I think
is still valid.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

Christian Gruber

Am 27.10.19 um 03:40 schrieb John Ralls:

>
>> On Oct 26, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Christian Gruber <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, I'm currently looking through the (quite long) buglist on Gnucash Bugzilla <https://bugs.gnucash.org/> to see, where I can provide help. Unfortunatelly I'm a little bit frustrated, because of many entries, which are still open (STATUS != RESOLVED), but haven't changed for years.
>>
>> Which of them are still relevant? When is a bug outdated? Are some of them maybe already resolved, but haven't been closed? Who actually closes a bug, the author or the Gnucash maintainers? Are there any plans to close outdated bugs?
>>
>> I had a look on Bugzilla Administration <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Bugzilla_Administration> page, but this didn't answer my questions.
>
> Christian,
>
> The overall problem is too many bugs, not enough developer time to go through them, especially old ones. Yes, it's entirely possible that many of them have been subsequently fixed by someone working on something else and that someone didn't think to go looking for related bugs. Unfortunately it's equally likely that some of those old bugs are too hard to fix or even to find the cause, or that no developer ever even got interested in looking into them.
>
> Which ones are still relevant is hard to determine: GnuCash is complex and there have been lots of bugs over the years that were revealed because of a corner case in someone's accounts, so just because a developer or tester can't reproduce a bug doesn't mean that it's invalid. I suppose one could declare a bug obsolete if the module that would have caused it is easily identifiable and that code has been substantially rewritten since, but determining that isn't necessarily easy. The only policy we have is that if a bug is marked "NEEDSINFO" and none has been provided after 3 Months it can be resolved as INCOMPLETE, usually with a note telling the reporter to reopen it if they ever get around to caring about it again.
>
> It's nice but rare when the reporter closes a bug, so it usually falls to a developer.
>
> Note that of the 1364 open GnuCash bugs, 489 are enhancement requests.
>
> Non-enhancement bugs 2001-01-01 to 2010-12-31:  155
>                       2011-01-01 to 2015-12-31:  296
>                       2016-01-01 to 2016-12-31:   48
>                       2017-01-01 to 2017-12-31:   77
>                       2018-01-01 to 2018-12-31:  117
>                       2019-01-01 to Now:         210
>
> As an illustration of how old bugs can still be relevant, https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=88517 is the oldest open bug (from July 2002). It's about copying and pasting transactions, was last commented on in 2017, and I think
> is still valid.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
Ok, I suspected something like that. I'll do my best to provide
meaningful help.
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Re: [GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

David Cousens
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2
John,

Is there perhaps a need to place maintenance limits on GnuCash release
versions,  i.e. at a specified time after release they become unsupported,
as is bugs and all. This is more than likely what actually happens in
practice given limited skilled developer time. As bug reports are often tied
to a specific version, bugs could then be removed from bugzilla when the
version they apply to becomes unsupported.  Most bugs are not show stoppers
and those that are or are particularly inconvenient are usually fixed fairly
quickly after release.

Enhancement requests could possibly have a longer lifetime but perhaps there
is a need for expiry on those as well. E.g. if they didn't make it into the
next major release and you really need that feature you raise the issue
again (or work on it yourself).

David Cousens



-----
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Re: [GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

Colin Law
Possibly an alternative, used in Ubuntu for example, is when a version
goes out of support that any bugs against that version have a comment
added saying the version is out of support, saying that if the bug is
relevant to a later version then please to post a comment, and marking
the bug as needing info, so it will expire after a time if there is no
input,

Colin

On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 at 21:46, David Cousens <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> John,
>
> Is there perhaps a need to place maintenance limits on GnuCash release
> versions,  i.e. at a specified time after release they become unsupported,
> as is bugs and all. This is more than likely what actually happens in
> practice given limited skilled developer time. As bug reports are often tied
> to a specific version, bugs could then be removed from bugzilla when the
> version they apply to becomes unsupported.  Most bugs are not show stoppers
> and those that are or are particularly inconvenient are usually fixed fairly
> quickly after release.
>
> Enhancement requests could possibly have a longer lifetime but perhaps there
> is a need for expiry on those as well. E.g. if they didn't make it into the
> next major release and you really need that feature you raise the issue
> again (or work on it yourself).
>
> David Cousens
>
>
>
> -----
> David Cousens
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-Dev-f1435356.html
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
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Re: [GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by David Cousens


> On Oct 27, 2019, at 2:45 PM, David Cousens <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Is there perhaps a need to place maintenance limits on GnuCash release
> versions,  i.e. at a specified time after release they become unsupported,
> as is bugs and all. This is more than likely what actually happens in
> practice given limited skilled developer time. As bug reports are often tied
> to a specific version, bugs could then be removed from bugzilla when the
> version they apply to becomes unsupported.  Most bugs are not show stoppers
> and those that are or are particularly inconvenient are usually fixed fairly
> quickly after release.
>
> Enhancement requests could possibly have a longer lifetime but perhaps there
> is a need for expiry on those as well. E.g. if they didn't make it into the
> next major release and you really need that feature you raise the issue
> again (or work on it yourself).

David,

We don't support old versions. If you find a bug in e.g. 2.6.21 we'll tell you to try 3.7 to see if it's still valid. That's not the same as you reported a bug 2 years ago against 2.6.18 (the current version then) and it hasn't been fixed.

Bug reports are tied to a specific version because that's the version the reporter was running when they discovered the bug, not because there's a huge difference in the code from one version to the next.

There's plenty of code in GnuCash that's more than 10 years old, so just because someone reported a bug 10 years ago doesn't make it invalid.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by Colin Law
Colin,

That's a worthwhile idea that could be easily applied to all bugs over n years old. One could start with n around 10, perhaps meaning everything against versions before 2.4.0.  Care to spend some quality time in Bugzilla?

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Oct 27, 2019, at 3:14 PM, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Possibly an alternative, used in Ubuntu for example, is when a version
> goes out of support that any bugs against that version have a comment
> added saying the version is out of support, saying that if the bug is
> relevant to a later version then please to post a comment, and marking
> the bug as needing info, so it will expire after a time if there is no
> input,
>
> Colin
>
> On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 at 21:46, David Cousens <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> John,
>>
>> Is there perhaps a need to place maintenance limits on GnuCash release
>> versions,  i.e. at a specified time after release they become unsupported,
>> as is bugs and all. This is more than likely what actually happens in
>> practice given limited skilled developer time. As bug reports are often tied
>> to a specific version, bugs could then be removed from bugzilla when the
>> version they apply to becomes unsupported.  Most bugs are not show stoppers
>> and those that are or are particularly inconvenient are usually fixed fairly
>> quickly after release.
>>
>> Enhancement requests could possibly have a longer lifetime but perhaps there
>> is a need for expiry on those as well. E.g. if they didn't make it into the
>> next major release and you really need that feature you raise the issue
>> again (or work on it yourself).
>>
>> David Cousens
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> David Cousens
>> --
>> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-Dev-f1435356.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel

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Re: [GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

David Carlson-4
There are even older enhancement requests that are still valid - e.g.
*Bug 476114.* <https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=476114>

On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 10:06 PM John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Colin,
>
> That's a worthwhile idea that could be easily applied to all bugs over n
> years old. One could start with n around 10, perhaps meaning everything
> against versions before 2.4.0.  Care to spend some quality time in Bugzilla?
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
> > On Oct 27, 2019, at 3:14 PM, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Possibly an alternative, used in Ubuntu for example, is when a version
> > goes out of support that any bugs against that version have a comment
> > added saying the version is out of support, saying that if the bug is
> > relevant to a later version then please to post a comment, and marking
> > the bug as needing info, so it will expire after a time if there is no
> > input,
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 at 21:46, David Cousens <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> John,
> >>
> >> Is there perhaps a need to place maintenance limits on GnuCash release
> >> versions,  i.e. at a specified time after release they become
> unsupported,
> >> as is bugs and all. This is more than likely what actually happens in
> >> practice given limited skilled developer time. As bug reports are often
> tied
> >> to a specific version, bugs could then be removed from bugzilla when the
> >> version they apply to becomes unsupported.  Most bugs are not show
> stoppers
> >> and those that are or are particularly inconvenient are usually fixed
> fairly
> >> quickly after release.
> >>
> >> Enhancement requests could possibly have a longer lifetime but perhaps
> there
> >> is a need for expiry on those as well. E.g. if they didn't make it into
> the
> >> next major release and you really need that feature you raise the issue
> >> again (or work on it yourself).
> >>
> >> David Cousens
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----
> >> David Cousens
> >> --
> >> Sent from:
> http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-Dev-f1435356.html
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> gnucash-devel mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>


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Re: [GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

Christian Gruber
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2
Ok, I'll start doing that on all bugs older than 10 years. If there is
no reaction after at least one month, I'll close them as RESOLVED.

By the way, I found some bugs, which were already commented this way by
"Wm", but without setting status to NEEDINFO. And he/she didn't close
the bugs. I'll close these as well, if there is no reaction after at
least one month. See https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=459278 for
instance.

Christian

Am 28.10.19 um 04:03 schrieb John Ralls:

> Colin,
>
> That's a worthwhile idea that could be easily applied to all bugs over n years old. One could start with n around 10, perhaps meaning everything against versions before 2.4.0.  Care to spend some quality time in Bugzilla?
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>> On Oct 27, 2019, at 3:14 PM, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Possibly an alternative, used in Ubuntu for example, is when a version
>> goes out of support that any bugs against that version have a comment
>> added saying the version is out of support, saying that if the bug is
>> relevant to a later version then please to post a comment, and marking
>> the bug as needing info, so it will expire after a time if there is no
>> input,
>>
>> Colin
>>
>> On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 at 21:46, David Cousens <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Is there perhaps a need to place maintenance limits on GnuCash release
>>> versions,  i.e. at a specified time after release they become unsupported,
>>> as is bugs and all. This is more than likely what actually happens in
>>> practice given limited skilled developer time. As bug reports are often tied
>>> to a specific version, bugs could then be removed from bugzilla when the
>>> version they apply to becomes unsupported.  Most bugs are not show stoppers
>>> and those that are or are particularly inconvenient are usually fixed fairly
>>> quickly after release.
>>>
>>> Enhancement requests could possibly have a longer lifetime but perhaps there
>>> is a need for expiry on those as well. E.g. if they didn't make it into the
>>> next major release and you really need that feature you raise the issue
>>> again (or work on it yourself).
>>>
>>> David Cousens
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> David Cousens
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-Dev-f1435356.html
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gnucash-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
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Re: [GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

Colin Law
On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 at 22:24, Christian Gruber
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ok, I'll start doing that on all bugs older than 10 years. If there is
> no reaction after at least one month, I'll close them as RESOLVED.

Does the system have a setting so that automatically closes bugs that
have been marked as needing input if nothing happens for a defined
period?  Launchpad uses that method for Ubuntu bugs and it is a good
way of getting rid of obsolete bug reports with minimum intervention.

Colin
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Re: [GNC-dev] What about outdated open bugs in Gnucash Bugzilla?

John Ralls-2


> On Nov 8, 2019, at 1:14 AM, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 at 22:24, Christian Gruber
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Ok, I'll start doing that on all bugs older than 10 years. If there is
>> no reaction after at least one month, I'll close them as RESOLVED.
>
> Does the system have a setting so that automatically closes bugs that
> have been marked as needing input if nothing happens for a defined
> period?  Launchpad uses that method for Ubuntu bugs and it is a good
> way of getting rid of obsolete bug reports with minimum intervention.
>

Not AFAICT.

Regards,
John Ralls

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