[GNC-dev] German online banking users would need a 3.7 release before mid-September...

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[GNC-dev] German online banking users would need a 3.7 release before mid-September...

Christian Stimming-4
Dear developers,

the German online banking users have received notice from their banks that due
to EU regulations, from mid-September onwards (Sept 14th) the banking client
software has to use a registered product key, otherwise the bank server
connection will be refused.

(In German: https://www.hbci-zka.de/register/prod_register.htm )

For gnucash, I have registered and received such a product key, and in the
communication to me there haven't been any restrictions that would pose
problems for open source software. Hence, as long as gnucash will stick to
this procedure and send the product key, the users (and we) should be fine.

However, as our banking library aqbanking only recently introduced the
necessary API for this, it was not before July 7th that this code has been
introduced into gnucash, which means our last stable version gnucash-3.6 does
not yet contain this.

My question is: Can we schedule the 3.7 release somewhat earlier than our
normal 3-month schedule, so that this release is available before the bank
server change in mid-September? Normal schedule for 3.7 is End of September,
but this is too late for users of this feature.

In theory, any release date between now and Sept 14th would be fine, although
the earlier we do this, the earlier the respective updates can be tested by
the users. Maybe around August 20th?

Thanks for your consideration!

Regards,

Christian


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Re: [GNC-dev] German online banking users would need a 3.7 release before mid-September...

John Ralls-2


> On Aug 10, 2019, at 4:20 AM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dear developers,
>
> the German online banking users have received notice from their banks that due
> to EU regulations, from mid-September onwards (Sept 14th) the banking client
> software has to use a registered product key, otherwise the bank server
> connection will be refused.
>
> (In German: https://www.hbci-zka.de/register/prod_register.htm )
>
> For gnucash, I have registered and received such a product key, and in the
> communication to me there haven't been any restrictions that would pose
> problems for open source software. Hence, as long as gnucash will stick to
> this procedure and send the product key, the users (and we) should be fine.
>
> However, as our banking library aqbanking only recently introduced the
> necessary API for this, it was not before July 7th that this code has been
> introduced into gnucash, which means our last stable version gnucash-3.6 does
> not yet contain this.
>
> My question is: Can we schedule the 3.7 release somewhat earlier than our
> normal 3-month schedule, so that this release is available before the bank
> server change in mid-September? Normal schedule for 3.7 is End of September,
> but this is too late for users of this feature.
>
> In theory, any release date between now and Sept 14th would be fine, although
> the earlier we do this, the earlier the respective updates can be tested by
> the users. Maybe around August 20th?

Christian,

Apparently the bank servers were supposed to have switched over last week, see https://www.hbci-zka.de/register/register_faq.htm. The 14 September deadline seems to have something to do with using FinTS bank interfaces via third party services, see https://subsembly.com/apidoc/fints/index.html under "PSD2 Client Registration". I suppose some users may have configured GnuCash to do that and now will have to reconfigure to talk to their banks instead. There's nothing we can do about that.

Regardless, we can do a snap release as soon as we can get the registration number issue sorted and I can make time to do the release.

I am a bit concerned about the registration number being published. What's to prevent a bad actor from taking it and using it in a different, malicious, application? What might be the consequences? Would DK revoke GnuCash's registration? I think it more likely that the folks at DK didn't even consider the possibility that there might be an open source financial application than that it doesn't matter to them.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC-dev] German online banking users would need a 3.7 release before mid-September...

Christian Stimming-4
Am Samstag, 10. August 2019, 20:32:00 CEST schrieb John Ralls:

> > the German online banking users have received notice from their banks that
> > due to EU regulations, from mid-September onwards (Sept 14th) the banking
> > client software has to use a registered product key, otherwise the bank
> > server connection will be refused.
> >
> > (In German: https://www.hbci-zka.de/register/prod_register.htm )
> >
> > For gnucash, I have registered and received such a product key, and in the
> > communication to me there haven't been any restrictions that would pose
> > problems for open source software. Hence, as long as gnucash will stick to
> > this procedure and send the product key, the users (and we) should be
> > fine.
>
> Apparently the bank servers were supposed to have switched over last week,
> see https://www.hbci-zka.de/register/register_faq.htm. The 14 September
> deadline seems to have something to do with using FinTS bank interfaces via
> third party services, see https://subsembly.com/apidoc/fints/index.html
> under "PSD2 Client Registration". I suppose some users may have configured
> GnuCash to do that and now will have to reconfigure to talk to their banks
> instead. There's nothing we can do about that.

The information on the zka.de  website about the dates is (no pun intended)
outdated and the information is also unchanged for many months there. The date
of Sept. 14th is what various users received as notification from their banks
quite recently, that's where this date is from.

> Regardless, we can do a snap release as soon as we can get the registration
> number issue sorted and I can make time to do the release.

The windows nightly has built last night. On gnucash-de I asked windows-users
to start testing it. Let's see whether this is indeed sufficiently
implemented. Once some positive feedback has arrived, a 3.7 release sometime
in August would indeed be great - as it fits best for you.

> I am a bit concerned about the registration number being published. What's
> to prevent a bad actor from taking it and using it in a different,
> malicious, application? What might be the consequences? Would DK revoke
> GnuCash's registration? I think it more likely that the folks at DK didn't
> even consider the possibility that there might be an open source financial
> application than that it doesn't matter to them.

I totally understand these concerns, and it holds for any open source project
here, not only ours. Such as: KMyMoney, Hibiscus, aqbanking, but there are
surely more. As it turns out, we've discussed those very same points on
gnucash-de several months ago (in German) because the various people there
came up with the same questions. Some people have asked at the ZKA for a
statement regarding their view on open source software. Eventually we got a
reply which is in our favor: This registration number has no legal obligations
behind it. It is merely a tool for guiding the user support into better suited
answers.  There's no security level introduced by this here, and it is known
to the ZKA that open source software will have this number observable in the
public source code. Yes, this in turn questions the whole point of this
fuzz... on the other hand, if the bank server will otherwise refuse the whole
online connection in the first place, we also have to do something about it.

Regards,

Christian


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Re: [GNC-dev] German online banking users would need a 3.7 release before mid-September...

John Ralls-2


> On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Am Samstag, 10. August 2019, 20:32:00 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
>
>> Regardless, we can do a snap release as soon as we can get the registration
>> number issue sorted and I can make time to do the release.
>
> The windows nightly has built last night. On gnucash-de I asked windows-users
> to start testing it. Let's see whether this is indeed sufficiently
> implemented. Once some positive feedback has arrived, a 3.7 release sometime
> in August would indeed be great - as it fits best for you.

Christian,

Has there been sufficient testing to proceed with a release this weekend?

Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: [GNC-dev] German online banking users would need a 3.7 release before mid-September...

Christian Stimming-4
Am Donnerstag, 22. August 2019, 21:57:30 CEST schrieb John Ralls:

> > On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:>
> > Am Samstag, 10. August 2019, 20:32:00 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
> >> Regardless, we can do a snap release as soon as we can get the
> >> registration
> >> number issue sorted and I can make time to do the release.
> >
> > The windows nightly has built last night. On gnucash-de I asked
> > windows-users to start testing it. Let's see whether this is indeed
> > sufficiently implemented. Once some positive feedback has arrived, a 3.7
> > release sometime in August would indeed be great - as it fits best for
> > you.
>
> Christian,
>
> Has there been sufficient testing to proceed with a release this weekend?

Dear John,

to be honest, I still haven't received the definitive feedback that the
current git/maint code has fixed the various bank server complaints. Hence, I
think a release is not really suited for this weekend. Maybe next weekend, but
as I said, there hasn't been the really clear feedback that current maint
really fixes all issues there.

Current maint already contains a number of improvements over the last release
for sure, but this is fortunately true for almost all points in time. But for
the online banking things we are not yet sure that this really fixes the most
important issue. I'll keep you posted. Thanks!

Regards,
Christian


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Re: [GNC-dev] German online banking users would need a 3.7 release before mid-September...

John Ralls-2


> On Aug 23, 2019, at 2:33 PM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Am Donnerstag, 22. August 2019, 21:57:30 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
>>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:>
>>> Am Samstag, 10. August 2019, 20:32:00 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
>>>> Regardless, we can do a snap release as soon as we can get the
>>>> registration
>>>> number issue sorted and I can make time to do the release.
>>>
>>> The windows nightly has built last night. On gnucash-de I asked
>>> windows-users to start testing it. Let's see whether this is indeed
>>> sufficiently implemented. Once some positive feedback has arrived, a 3.7
>>> release sometime in August would indeed be great - as it fits best for
>>> you.
>>
>> Christian,
>>
>> Has there been sufficient testing to proceed with a release this weekend?
>
> Dear John,
>
> to be honest, I still haven't received the definitive feedback that the
> current git/maint code has fixed the various bank server complaints. Hence, I
> think a release is not really suited for this weekend. Maybe next weekend, but
> as I said, there hasn't been the really clear feedback that current maint
> really fixes all issues there.
>
> Current maint already contains a number of improvements over the last release
> for sure, but this is fortunately true for almost all points in time. But for
> the online banking things we are not yet sure that this really fixes the most
> important issue. I'll keep you posted. Thanks!

Christian,

Since the whole point of the snap release is to get the FinTS product registration feature to German users we should indeed make sure that it works before releasing it.

Unfortunately I'm fully engaged next weekend so the release may have to wait until the following weekend, September 7. I don't think there's much point in doing another release 3 weeks later so we'll just call it the regular release and delivered early.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC-dev] German online banking users would need a 3.7 release before mid-September...

Christian Stimming-4
Dear John, that sounds definitely good. So the Release of end of September will be scheduled earlier for Sept 7th and that’s it. Thanks a lot!

Regards, Christian

> Am 23.08.2019 um 23:42 schrieb John Ralls <[hidden email]>:
>
>
>
>> On Aug 23, 2019, at 2:33 PM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Am Donnerstag, 22. August 2019, 21:57:30 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
>>>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:>
>>>> Am Samstag, 10. August 2019, 20:32:00 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
>>>>> Regardless, we can do a snap release as soon as we can get the
>>>>> registration
>>>>> number issue sorted and I can make time to do the release.
>>>>
>>>> The windows nightly has built last night. On gnucash-de I asked
>>>> windows-users to start testing it. Let's see whether this is indeed
>>>> sufficiently implemented. Once some positive feedback has arrived, a 3.7
>>>> release sometime in August would indeed be great - as it fits best for
>>>> you.
>>>
>>> Christian,
>>>
>>> Has there been sufficient testing to proceed with a release this weekend?
>>
>> Dear John,
>>
>> to be honest, I still haven't received the definitive feedback that the
>> current git/maint code has fixed the various bank server complaints. Hence, I
>> think a release is not really suited for this weekend. Maybe next weekend, but
>> as I said, there hasn't been the really clear feedback that current maint
>> really fixes all issues there.
>>
>> Current maint already contains a number of improvements over the last release
>> for sure, but this is fortunately true for almost all points in time. But for
>> the online banking things we are not yet sure that this really fixes the most
>> important issue. I'll keep you posted. Thanks!
>
> Christian,
>
> Since the whole point of the snap release is to get the FinTS product registration feature to German users we should indeed make sure that it works before releasing it.
>
> Unfortunately I'm fully engaged next weekend so the release may have to wait until the following weekend, September 7. I don't think there's much point in doing another release 3 weeks later so we'll just call it the regular release and delivered early.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>

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Re: [GNC-dev] German online banking users would need a 3.7 release before mid-September...

John Ralls-2
Christian,

Not *quite* so fast: That's contingent on you confirming that you've gotten that positive feedback by then.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Aug 24, 2019, at 2:27 AM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dear John, that sounds definitely good. So the Release of end of September will be scheduled earlier for Sept 7th and that’s it. Thanks a lot!
>
> Regards, Christian
>
>> Am 23.08.2019 um 23:42 schrieb John Ralls <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 23, 2019, at 2:33 PM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am Donnerstag, 22. August 2019, 21:57:30 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
>>>>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:>
>>>>> Am Samstag, 10. August 2019, 20:32:00 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
>>>>>> Regardless, we can do a snap release as soon as we can get the
>>>>>> registration
>>>>>> number issue sorted and I can make time to do the release.
>>>>>
>>>>> The windows nightly has built last night. On gnucash-de I asked
>>>>> windows-users to start testing it. Let's see whether this is indeed
>>>>> sufficiently implemented. Once some positive feedback has arrived, a 3.7
>>>>> release sometime in August would indeed be great - as it fits best for
>>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> Christian,
>>>>
>>>> Has there been sufficient testing to proceed with a release this weekend?
>>>
>>> Dear John,
>>>
>>> to be honest, I still haven't received the definitive feedback that the
>>> current git/maint code has fixed the various bank server complaints. Hence, I
>>> think a release is not really suited for this weekend. Maybe next weekend, but
>>> as I said, there hasn't been the really clear feedback that current maint
>>> really fixes all issues there.
>>>
>>> Current maint already contains a number of improvements over the last release
>>> for sure, but this is fortunately true for almost all points in time. But for
>>> the online banking things we are not yet sure that this really fixes the most
>>> important issue. I'll keep you posted. Thanks!
>>
>> Christian,
>>
>> Since the whole point of the snap release is to get the FinTS product registration feature to German users we should indeed make sure that it works before releasing it.
>>
>> Unfortunately I'm fully engaged next weekend so the release may have to wait until the following weekend, September 7. I don't think there's much point in doing another release 3 weeks later so we'll just call it the regular release and delivered early.
>>
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>>
>

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Re: [GNC-dev] German online banking users would need a 3.7 release before mid-September...

Christian Stimming-4
John,

today we finally got note from some users that bank servers which used to
complain without the patch from 39cfcb30f939ca3c413350c8262ceea69085fb6b are
now satisfied and all works fine. Hence, the next release 3.7, now scheduled
for Sept 7th, would indeed be great.

Thanks a lot!
Regards,
Christian

Am Samstag, 24. August 2019, 18:26:05 CEST schrieb John Ralls:

> Christian,
>
> Not *quite* so fast: That's contingent on you confirming that you've gotten
> that positive feedback by then.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
> > On Aug 24, 2019, at 2:27 AM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Dear John, that sounds definitely good. So the Release of end of September
> > will be scheduled earlier for Sept 7th and that’s it. Thanks a lot!
> >
> > Regards, Christian
> >
> >> Am 23.08.2019 um 23:42 schrieb John Ralls <[hidden email]>:
> >>> On Aug 23, 2019, at 2:33 PM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:>>>
> >>> Am Donnerstag, 22. August 2019, 21:57:30 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
> >>>>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Christian Stimming
> >>>>> <[hidden email]>
> >>>>> wrote:>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Am Samstag, 10. August 2019, 20:32:00 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
> >>>>>> Regardless, we can do a snap release as soon as we can get the
> >>>>>> registration
> >>>>>> number issue sorted and I can make time to do the release.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The windows nightly has built last night. On gnucash-de I asked
> >>>>> windows-users to start testing it. Let's see whether this is indeed
> >>>>> sufficiently implemented. Once some positive feedback has arrived, a
> >>>>> 3.7
> >>>>> release sometime in August would indeed be great - as it fits best for
> >>>>> you.
> >>>>
> >>>> Christian,
> >>>>
> >>>> Has there been sufficient testing to proceed with a release this
> >>>> weekend?
> >>>
> >>> Dear John,
> >>>
> >>> to be honest, I still haven't received the definitive feedback that the
> >>> current git/maint code has fixed the various bank server complaints.
> >>> Hence, I think a release is not really suited for this weekend. Maybe
> >>> next weekend, but as I said, there hasn't been the really clear
> >>> feedback that current maint really fixes all issues there.
> >>>
> >>> Current maint already contains a number of improvements over the last
> >>> release for sure, but this is fortunately true for almost all points in
> >>> time. But for the online banking things we are not yet sure that this
> >>> really fixes the most important issue. I'll keep you posted. Thanks!
> >>
> >> Christian,
> >>
> >> Since the whole point of the snap release is to get the FinTS product
> >> registration feature to German users we should indeed make sure that it
> >> works before releasing it.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately I'm fully engaged next weekend so the release may have to
> >> wait until the following weekend, September 7. I don't think there's
> >> much point in doing another release 3 weeks later so we'll just call it
> >> the regular release and delivered early.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> John Ralls




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Re: [GNC-dev] German online banking users would need a 3.7 release before mid-September...

John Ralls-2
Excellent. I've adjusted the release schedule accordingly.

Regards,
John Ralls


> On Aug 27, 2019, at 2:14 PM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> today we finally got note from some users that bank servers which used to
> complain without the patch from 39cfcb30f939ca3c413350c8262ceea69085fb6b are
> now satisfied and all works fine. Hence, the next release 3.7, now scheduled
> for Sept 7th, would indeed be great.
>
> Thanks a lot!
> Regards,
> Christian
>
> Am Samstag, 24. August 2019, 18:26:05 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
>> Christian,
>>
>> Not *quite* so fast: That's contingent on you confirming that you've gotten
>> that positive feedback by then.
>>
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>>
>>> On Aug 24, 2019, at 2:27 AM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear John, that sounds definitely good. So the Release of end of September
>>> will be scheduled earlier for Sept 7th and that’s it. Thanks a lot!
>>>
>>> Regards, Christian
>>>
>>>> Am 23.08.2019 um 23:42 schrieb John Ralls <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> On Aug 23, 2019, at 2:33 PM, Christian Stimming <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:>>>
>>>>> Am Donnerstag, 22. August 2019, 21:57:30 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
>>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Christian Stimming
>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>> wrote:>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am Samstag, 10. August 2019, 20:32:00 CEST schrieb John Ralls:
>>>>>>>> Regardless, we can do a snap release as soon as we can get the
>>>>>>>> registration
>>>>>>>> number issue sorted and I can make time to do the release.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The windows nightly has built last night. On gnucash-de I asked
>>>>>>> windows-users to start testing it. Let's see whether this is indeed
>>>>>>> sufficiently implemented. Once some positive feedback has arrived, a
>>>>>>> 3.7
>>>>>>> release sometime in August would indeed be great - as it fits best for
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christian,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has there been sufficient testing to proceed with a release this
>>>>>> weekend?
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear John,
>>>>>
>>>>> to be honest, I still haven't received the definitive feedback that the
>>>>> current git/maint code has fixed the various bank server complaints.
>>>>> Hence, I think a release is not really suited for this weekend. Maybe
>>>>> next weekend, but as I said, there hasn't been the really clear
>>>>> feedback that current maint really fixes all issues there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Current maint already contains a number of improvements over the last
>>>>> release for sure, but this is fortunately true for almost all points in
>>>>> time. But for the online banking things we are not yet sure that this
>>>>> really fixes the most important issue. I'll keep you posted. Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Christian,
>>>>
>>>> Since the whole point of the snap release is to get the FinTS product
>>>> registration feature to German users we should indeed make sure that it
>>>> works before releasing it.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately I'm fully engaged next weekend so the release may have to
>>>> wait until the following weekend, September 7. I don't think there's
>>>> much point in doing another release 3 weeks later so we'll just call it
>>>> the regular release and delivered early.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> John Ralls
>
>
>
>

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