[GNC-dev] Documentation--What else?

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[GNC-dev] Documentation--What else?

GnuCash - Dev mailing list
Hello,

I am going to raise—once again—the spectre of the conflicting and duplicative information in the various documentation packages in relation to online quote retrieval.

As one of the documentarians in the broader community, I episodically attempt to make sense of, clean up, and (hopefully) improve the various sets of documentation. Currently, I am poking primarily at the wiki, and I find myself in a long series of circular tangles of information that render a solution daunting (to say the least).

There are two entries on Online Quotes in the FAQ; these refer to each other and to a separate page on the wiki. The separate wiki page is a mess of highly technical information that has nothing to do with the FAQ questions, and offers no help in that regard (making the references from the FAQ less than helpful). Furthermore, both the Guide and the Help have separate, essentially complete descriptions of setting up online quotes.

Any rightful attempt at ensuring that online quoting is properly and carefully documented requires that *every* one of these sources be updated and coordinated with the others. This turns out to be exceedingly challenging, especially given that it’s not entirely clear which source should contain which data. To me (admittedly a “Concepts” kind of guy), the fullest description of setup and management should go into the Guide at section 9.6. However, the Help at section 5.4.1.1 includes another essentially full description of setup and management; presumably this entry should focus on the “This button does This action” kind of information (since that is what I understand is supposed to be the primary purpose of the Help). And where, in all this, do the different pieces on the wiki fit in?

Attempting to shepherd any rationalization of these resources through the process is painful and time-consuming.

I will note that the challenge described here repeats itself time and time again, in all manner of subject areas in the documentation, leaving the documentation in a disorganized state.

Here is my proposed action plan:

1) Edit the Guide to include background, setup and management of online quoting. This section will explain F::Q, its relation to GnuCash, installation, and maintenance.
2) Edit the Help to remove information covered in the Guide, and add references to the Guide. Determining which pieces are context versus background will be difficult, BTW.
3) Replace FAQ questions with references to “Online Quotes” pages and the Guide, and move all detail to those locations.
4) Rewrite “Online Quotes” to be geared first to troubleshooting for the end user (rather than whatever it currently is).

Unclear to me, however, is the extent to which GnuCash should document Finance::Quote and its functionality. Technically, F::Q is an external project, and so GnuCash should point to F::Q for detailed help, rather than write and provide it. However, it is clear that there is a disconnect between the help provided by F::Q, and the technical skill level of many GnuCash users. I’m not sure where to draw the line here.

Because of this, I believe it might be best to keep technical aspects of F::Q on our wiki page (at “Online Quotes”), since they can change without GnuCash control. Changing the wiki to reflect current F::Q behavior is quicker and easier than trying to get those changes into the Help or Guide.

Comments and advice are welcome.

David
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Re: [GNC-dev] Documentation--What else?

Geert Janssens-4
That reads like a good plan.

I'm all for deduplication. I agree with your assessment of what help and guide
should be. And that the guide should be the general documentation with
troubleshooting explained in the wiki. Troubleshooting tends to change more
quickly than base documentation.

I also think it's a good idea to keep an entry point on Online Quotes on the
FAQ.

So a +1 on all accounts.

Geert

Op vrijdag 7 september 2018 17:47:55 CEST schreef David T. via gnucash-devel:

> Hello,
>
> I am going to raise—once again—the spectre of the conflicting and
> duplicative information in the various documentation packages in relation
> to online quote retrieval.
>
> As one of the documentarians in the broader community, I episodically
> attempt to make sense of, clean up, and (hopefully) improve the various
> sets of documentation. Currently, I am poking primarily at the wiki, and I
> find myself in a long series of circular tangles of information that render
> a solution daunting (to say the least).
>
> There are two entries on Online Quotes in the FAQ; these refer to each other
> and to a separate page on the wiki. The separate wiki page is a mess of
> highly technical information that has nothing to do with the FAQ questions,
> and offers no help in that regard (making the references from the FAQ less
> than helpful). Furthermore, both the Guide and the Help have separate,
> essentially complete descriptions of setting up online quotes.
>
> Any rightful attempt at ensuring that online quoting is properly and
> carefully documented requires that *every* one of these sources be updated
> and coordinated with the others. This turns out to be exceedingly
> challenging, especially given that it’s not entirely clear which source
> should contain which data. To me (admittedly a “Concepts” kind of guy), the
> fullest description of setup and management should go into the Guide at
> section 9.6. However, the Help at section 5.4.1.1 includes another
> essentially full description of setup and management; presumably this entry
> should focus on the “This button does This action” kind of information
> (since that is what I understand is supposed to be the primary purpose of
> the Help). And where, in all this, do the different pieces on the wiki fit
> in?
>
> Attempting to shepherd any rationalization of these resources through the
> process is painful and time-consuming.
>
> I will note that the challenge described here repeats itself time and time
> again, in all manner of subject areas in the documentation, leaving the
> documentation in a disorganized state.
>
> Here is my proposed action plan:
>
> 1) Edit the Guide to include background, setup and management of online
> quoting. This section will explain F::Q, its relation to GnuCash,
> installation, and maintenance. 2) Edit the Help to remove information
> covered in the Guide, and add references to the Guide. Determining which
> pieces are context versus background will be difficult, BTW. 3) Replace FAQ
> questions with references to “Online Quotes” pages and the Guide, and move
> all detail to those locations. 4) Rewrite “Online Quotes” to be geared
> first to troubleshooting for the end user (rather than whatever it
> currently is).
>
> Unclear to me, however, is the extent to which GnuCash should document
> Finance::Quote and its functionality. Technically, F::Q is an external
> project, and so GnuCash should point to F::Q for detailed help, rather than
> write and provide it. However, it is clear that there is a disconnect
> between the help provided by F::Q, and the technical skill level of many
> GnuCash users. I’m not sure where to draw the line here.
>
> Because of this, I believe it might be best to keep technical aspects of
> F::Q on our wiki page (at “Online Quotes”), since they can change without
> GnuCash control. Changing the wiki to reflect current F::Q behavior is
> quicker and easier than trying to get those changes into the Help or Guide.
>
> Comments and advice are welcome.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel




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Re: [GNC-dev] Documentation--What else?

GnuCash - Dev mailing list
Ha. That means I have to figure out how to get my local repository working again….

[some time later]

OK, so I googled “force upstream into fork” and found some resources that seem to have fixed things for me. The commands I issued were:

DHT-Retina:gnucash-docs david$ git fetch upstream
DHT-Retina:gnucash-docs david$ git reset --hard upstream/maint
HEAD is now at ecd868b Fix xmllint error
DHT-Retina:gnucash-docs david$ git push origin maint --force
Counting objects: 99, done.
Delta compression using up to 8 threads.
Compressing objects: 100% (99/99), done.
Writing objects: 100% (99/99), 95.66 KiB | 0 bytes/s, done.
Total 99 (delta 69), reused 0 (delta 0)
remote: Resolving deltas: 100% (69/69), completed with 15 local objects.
To https://github.com/sunfish62/gnucash-docs
 + 4de1289...ecd868b maint -> maint (forced update)

If I understand it correctly, the first command brings in upstream (github.com/gnucash/gnucash-docs <http://github.com/gnucash/gnucash-docs>), the second force-resets my local (computer) repo to match upstream/maint, and the last pushes my (now-updated) local repo to my github fork. Do I have this right?

This appears to have done the trick; I see Geert’s final xmllint changes to ch_basics.xml on my local system, and github says that my fork is even with Gnucash-docs.

Is there another way that I can verify this? After all, I have remarkably bad luck when it comes to git…

David


> On Sep 7, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Geert Janssens <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That reads like a good plan.
>
> I'm all for deduplication. I agree with your assessment of what help and guide
> should be. And that the guide should be the general documentation with
> troubleshooting explained in the wiki. Troubleshooting tends to change more
> quickly than base documentation.
>
> I also think it's a good idea to keep an entry point on Online Quotes on the
> FAQ.
>
> So a +1 on all accounts.
>
> Geert
>
> Op vrijdag 7 september 2018 17:47:55 CEST schreef David T. via gnucash-devel:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am going to raise—once again—the spectre of the conflicting and
>> duplicative information in the various documentation packages in relation
>> to online quote retrieval.
>>
>> As one of the documentarians in the broader community, I episodically
>> attempt to make sense of, clean up, and (hopefully) improve the various
>> sets of documentation. Currently, I am poking primarily at the wiki, and I
>> find myself in a long series of circular tangles of information that render
>> a solution daunting (to say the least).
>>
>> There are two entries on Online Quotes in the FAQ; these refer to each other
>> and to a separate page on the wiki. The separate wiki page is a mess of
>> highly technical information that has nothing to do with the FAQ questions,
>> and offers no help in that regard (making the references from the FAQ less
>> than helpful). Furthermore, both the Guide and the Help have separate,
>> essentially complete descriptions of setting up online quotes.
>>
>> Any rightful attempt at ensuring that online quoting is properly and
>> carefully documented requires that *every* one of these sources be updated
>> and coordinated with the others. This turns out to be exceedingly
>> challenging, especially given that it’s not entirely clear which source
>> should contain which data. To me (admittedly a “Concepts” kind of guy), the
>> fullest description of setup and management should go into the Guide at
>> section 9.6. However, the Help at section 5.4.1.1 includes another
>> essentially full description of setup and management; presumably this entry
>> should focus on the “This button does This action” kind of information
>> (since that is what I understand is supposed to be the primary purpose of
>> the Help). And where, in all this, do the different pieces on the wiki fit
>> in?
>>
>> Attempting to shepherd any rationalization of these resources through the
>> process is painful and time-consuming.
>>
>> I will note that the challenge described here repeats itself time and time
>> again, in all manner of subject areas in the documentation, leaving the
>> documentation in a disorganized state.
>>
>> Here is my proposed action plan:
>>
>> 1) Edit the Guide to include background, setup and management of online
>> quoting. This section will explain F::Q, its relation to GnuCash,
>> installation, and maintenance. 2) Edit the Help to remove information
>> covered in the Guide, and add references to the Guide. Determining which
>> pieces are context versus background will be difficult, BTW. 3) Replace FAQ
>> questions with references to “Online Quotes” pages and the Guide, and move
>> all detail to those locations. 4) Rewrite “Online Quotes” to be geared
>> first to troubleshooting for the end user (rather than whatever it
>> currently is).
>>
>> Unclear to me, however, is the extent to which GnuCash should document
>> Finance::Quote and its functionality. Technically, F::Q is an external
>> project, and so GnuCash should point to F::Q for detailed help, rather than
>> write and provide it. However, it is clear that there is a disconnect
>> between the help provided by F::Q, and the technical skill level of many
>> GnuCash users. I’m not sure where to draw the line here.
>>
>> Because of this, I believe it might be best to keep technical aspects of
>> F::Q on our wiki page (at “Online Quotes”), since they can change without
>> GnuCash control. Changing the wiki to reflect current F::Q behavior is
>> quicker and easier than trying to get those changes into the Help or Guide.
>>
>> Comments and advice are welcome.
>>
>> David
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>
>
>
>

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Re: [GNC-dev] Documentation--What else?

John Ralls-2
David,

I checked your Github repository and it looks good.

I agree with Geert, your plan for Online Quotes seems sound.

I haven’t reviewed the wiki Online Quotes page; if there’s material there about the F::Q API, you may safely remove it because that’s duplicated in the F::Q documentation. Any other technical information should stay or at least be carefully reviewed before removal.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Sep 7, 2018, at 1:24 PM, David T. via gnucash-devel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ha. That means I have to figure out how to get my local repository working again….
>
> [some time later]
>
> OK, so I googled “force upstream into fork” and found some resources that seem to have fixed things for me. The commands I issued were:
>
> DHT-Retina:gnucash-docs david$ git fetch upstream
> DHT-Retina:gnucash-docs david$ git reset --hard upstream/maint
> HEAD is now at ecd868b Fix xmllint error
> DHT-Retina:gnucash-docs david$ git push origin maint --force
> Counting objects: 99, done.
> Delta compression using up to 8 threads.
> Compressing objects: 100% (99/99), done.
> Writing objects: 100% (99/99), 95.66 KiB | 0 bytes/s, done.
> Total 99 (delta 69), reused 0 (delta 0)
> remote: Resolving deltas: 100% (69/69), completed with 15 local objects.
> To https://github.com/sunfish62/gnucash-docs
> + 4de1289...ecd868b maint -> maint (forced update)
>
> If I understand it correctly, the first command brings in upstream (github.com/gnucash/gnucash-docs <http://github.com/gnucash/gnucash-docs>), the second force-resets my local (computer) repo to match upstream/maint, and the last pushes my (now-updated) local repo to my github fork. Do I have this right?
>
> This appears to have done the trick; I see Geert’s final xmllint changes to ch_basics.xml on my local system, and github says that my fork is even with Gnucash-docs.
>
> Is there another way that I can verify this? After all, I have remarkably bad luck when it comes to git…
>
> David
>
>
>> On Sep 7, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Geert Janssens <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> That reads like a good plan.
>>
>> I'm all for deduplication. I agree with your assessment of what help and guide
>> should be. And that the guide should be the general documentation with
>> troubleshooting explained in the wiki. Troubleshooting tends to change more
>> quickly than base documentation.
>>
>> I also think it's a good idea to keep an entry point on Online Quotes on the
>> FAQ.
>>
>> So a +1 on all accounts.
>>
>> Geert
>>
>> Op vrijdag 7 september 2018 17:47:55 CEST schreef David T. via gnucash-devel:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I am going to raise—once again—the spectre of the conflicting and
>>> duplicative information in the various documentation packages in relation
>>> to online quote retrieval.
>>>
>>> As one of the documentarians in the broader community, I episodically
>>> attempt to make sense of, clean up, and (hopefully) improve the various
>>> sets of documentation. Currently, I am poking primarily at the wiki, and I
>>> find myself in a long series of circular tangles of information that render
>>> a solution daunting (to say the least).
>>>
>>> There are two entries on Online Quotes in the FAQ; these refer to each other
>>> and to a separate page on the wiki. The separate wiki page is a mess of
>>> highly technical information that has nothing to do with the FAQ questions,
>>> and offers no help in that regard (making the references from the FAQ less
>>> than helpful). Furthermore, both the Guide and the Help have separate,
>>> essentially complete descriptions of setting up online quotes.
>>>
>>> Any rightful attempt at ensuring that online quoting is properly and
>>> carefully documented requires that *every* one of these sources be updated
>>> and coordinated with the others. This turns out to be exceedingly
>>> challenging, especially given that it’s not entirely clear which source
>>> should contain which data. To me (admittedly a “Concepts” kind of guy), the
>>> fullest description of setup and management should go into the Guide at
>>> section 9.6. However, the Help at section 5.4.1.1 includes another
>>> essentially full description of setup and management; presumably this entry
>>> should focus on the “This button does This action” kind of information
>>> (since that is what I understand is supposed to be the primary purpose of
>>> the Help). And where, in all this, do the different pieces on the wiki fit
>>> in?
>>>
>>> Attempting to shepherd any rationalization of these resources through the
>>> process is painful and time-consuming.
>>>
>>> I will note that the challenge described here repeats itself time and time
>>> again, in all manner of subject areas in the documentation, leaving the
>>> documentation in a disorganized state.
>>>
>>> Here is my proposed action plan:
>>>
>>> 1) Edit the Guide to include background, setup and management of online
>>> quoting. This section will explain F::Q, its relation to GnuCash,
>>> installation, and maintenance. 2) Edit the Help to remove information
>>> covered in the Guide, and add references to the Guide. Determining which
>>> pieces are context versus background will be difficult, BTW. 3) Replace FAQ
>>> questions with references to “Online Quotes” pages and the Guide, and move
>>> all detail to those locations. 4) Rewrite “Online Quotes” to be geared
>>> first to troubleshooting for the end user (rather than whatever it
>>> currently is).
>>>
>>> Unclear to me, however, is the extent to which GnuCash should document
>>> Finance::Quote and its functionality. Technically, F::Q is an external
>>> project, and so GnuCash should point to F::Q for detailed help, rather than
>>> write and provide it. However, it is clear that there is a disconnect
>>> between the help provided by F::Q, and the technical skill level of many
>>> GnuCash users. I’m not sure where to draw the line here.
>>>
>>> Because of this, I believe it might be best to keep technical aspects of
>>> F::Q on our wiki page (at “Online Quotes”), since they can change without
>>> GnuCash control. Changing the wiki to reflect current F::Q behavior is
>>> quicker and easier than trying to get those changes into the Help or Guide.
>>>
>>> Comments and advice are welcome.
>>>
>>> David
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gnucash-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel

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Re: [GNC-dev] Documentation--What else?

GnuCash - Dev mailing list
Thanks John for the confirmation on my efforts to realign my repo.

David

> On Sep 7, 2018, at 7:55 PM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I checked your Github repository and it looks good.
>
> I agree with Geert, your plan for Online Quotes seems sound.
>
> I haven’t reviewed the wiki Online Quotes page; if there’s material there about the F::Q API, you may safely remove it because that’s duplicated in the F::Q documentation. Any other technical information should stay or at least be carefully reviewed before removal.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>> On Sep 7, 2018, at 1:24 PM, David T. via gnucash-devel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Ha. That means I have to figure out how to get my local repository working again….
>>
>> [some time later]
>>
>> OK, so I googled “force upstream into fork” and found some resources that seem to have fixed things for me. The commands I issued were:
>>
>> DHT-Retina:gnucash-docs david$ git fetch upstream
>> DHT-Retina:gnucash-docs david$ git reset --hard upstream/maint
>> HEAD is now at ecd868b Fix xmllint error
>> DHT-Retina:gnucash-docs david$ git push origin maint --force
>> Counting objects: 99, done.
>> Delta compression using up to 8 threads.
>> Compressing objects: 100% (99/99), done.
>> Writing objects: 100% (99/99), 95.66 KiB | 0 bytes/s, done.
>> Total 99 (delta 69), reused 0 (delta 0)
>> remote: Resolving deltas: 100% (69/69), completed with 15 local objects.
>> To https://github.com/sunfish62/gnucash-docs
>> + 4de1289...ecd868b maint -> maint (forced update)
>>
>> If I understand it correctly, the first command brings in upstream (github.com/gnucash/gnucash-docs <http://github.com/gnucash/gnucash-docs>), the second force-resets my local (computer) repo to match upstream/maint, and the last pushes my (now-updated) local repo to my github fork. Do I have this right?
>>
>> This appears to have done the trick; I see Geert’s final xmllint changes to ch_basics.xml on my local system, and github says that my fork is even with Gnucash-docs.
>>
>> Is there another way that I can verify this? After all, I have remarkably bad luck when it comes to git…
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 7, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Geert Janssens <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> That reads like a good plan.
>>>
>>> I'm all for deduplication. I agree with your assessment of what help and guide
>>> should be. And that the guide should be the general documentation with
>>> troubleshooting explained in the wiki. Troubleshooting tends to change more
>>> quickly than base documentation.
>>>
>>> I also think it's a good idea to keep an entry point on Online Quotes on the
>>> FAQ.
>>>
>>> So a +1 on all accounts.
>>>
>>> Geert
>>>
>>> Op vrijdag 7 september 2018 17:47:55 CEST schreef David T. via gnucash-devel:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I am going to raise—once again—the spectre of the conflicting and
>>>> duplicative information in the various documentation packages in relation
>>>> to online quote retrieval.
>>>>
>>>> As one of the documentarians in the broader community, I episodically
>>>> attempt to make sense of, clean up, and (hopefully) improve the various
>>>> sets of documentation. Currently, I am poking primarily at the wiki, and I
>>>> find myself in a long series of circular tangles of information that render
>>>> a solution daunting (to say the least).
>>>>
>>>> There are two entries on Online Quotes in the FAQ; these refer to each other
>>>> and to a separate page on the wiki. The separate wiki page is a mess of
>>>> highly technical information that has nothing to do with the FAQ questions,
>>>> and offers no help in that regard (making the references from the FAQ less
>>>> than helpful). Furthermore, both the Guide and the Help have separate,
>>>> essentially complete descriptions of setting up online quotes.
>>>>
>>>> Any rightful attempt at ensuring that online quoting is properly and
>>>> carefully documented requires that *every* one of these sources be updated
>>>> and coordinated with the others. This turns out to be exceedingly
>>>> challenging, especially given that it’s not entirely clear which source
>>>> should contain which data. To me (admittedly a “Concepts” kind of guy), the
>>>> fullest description of setup and management should go into the Guide at
>>>> section 9.6. However, the Help at section 5.4.1.1 includes another
>>>> essentially full description of setup and management; presumably this entry
>>>> should focus on the “This button does This action” kind of information
>>>> (since that is what I understand is supposed to be the primary purpose of
>>>> the Help). And where, in all this, do the different pieces on the wiki fit
>>>> in?
>>>>
>>>> Attempting to shepherd any rationalization of these resources through the
>>>> process is painful and time-consuming.
>>>>
>>>> I will note that the challenge described here repeats itself time and time
>>>> again, in all manner of subject areas in the documentation, leaving the
>>>> documentation in a disorganized state.
>>>>
>>>> Here is my proposed action plan:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Edit the Guide to include background, setup and management of online
>>>> quoting. This section will explain F::Q, its relation to GnuCash,
>>>> installation, and maintenance. 2) Edit the Help to remove information
>>>> covered in the Guide, and add references to the Guide. Determining which
>>>> pieces are context versus background will be difficult, BTW. 3) Replace FAQ
>>>> questions with references to “Online Quotes” pages and the Guide, and move
>>>> all detail to those locations. 4) Rewrite “Online Quotes” to be geared
>>>> first to troubleshooting for the end user (rather than whatever it
>>>> currently is).
>>>>
>>>> Unclear to me, however, is the extent to which GnuCash should document
>>>> Finance::Quote and its functionality. Technically, F::Q is an external
>>>> project, and so GnuCash should point to F::Q for detailed help, rather than
>>>> write and provide it. However, it is clear that there is a disconnect
>>>> between the help provided by F::Q, and the technical skill level of many
>>>> GnuCash users. I’m not sure where to draw the line here.
>>>>
>>>> Because of this, I believe it might be best to keep technical aspects of
>>>> F::Q on our wiki page (at “Online Quotes”), since they can change without
>>>> GnuCash control. Changing the wiki to reflect current F::Q behavior is
>>>> quicker and easier than trying to get those changes into the Help or Guide.
>>>>
>>>> Comments and advice are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> gnucash-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>

_______________________________________________
gnucash-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel