[GNC] credit card opening balance

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[GNC] credit card opening balance

GnuCash - User mailing list
Hi All,

On a credit Card account, they owe me $18.00 (I over paid).
What do I enter for opening balance?  $18 or -$18?

And do I put in Payment or Charge?

When I enter a charge, why does "Transfer auto enter
"Orphan-USD"?  What is "Orphan-USD" anyway?

How do I tell the "transfer" column to bugger off and leave
me alone, unless I specifically want to transfer something.

Is there a way to turn "Transfer" off?

Many thanks,
-T



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Re: [GNC] credit card opening balance

Adrien Monteleone-2
If you enter negative numbers, it will flip to the other column. All numbers should be entered as positive. You choose to either enter them as payments or charges. (debits and credits respectively in formal terminology)

Payments (debits, left column) decrease the amount owed for a liability.
Charges (credits, right column) increase the amount owed for a liability.

Since they owe you, you want to enter that amount on the payment side.

The other account you want to use is Equity:Opening Balances (since you indicated this is the opening balance for that account at the point you are starting your books)

While ‘payment’ may sound strange to you, the math will work out.

Personally, I prefer formal accounting labels (debits/credits) as that is easier to keep straight in my mind. I also view all registers in Transaction Journal view and Double Line view. (Double Line view allows for a transaction-wide note field) This allows me to see all debits and credits at all times so I understand exactly what is happening with all transactions and nothing is hidden. (you can always toggle this as desired in the view menu, or set the preference globally) If you click the ’split’ button, you’ll see a similar view for a single transaction. (Auto-Split shows all splits only for the current transaction you are editing)

When you enter transactions, you aren’t entering them in only one account, every transaction records money moving from one account to another. The current register is one account, you have to specify the other. If you don’t, GnuCash will use either the Orphan-USD or Imbalance-USD accounts. (USD is different for each currency used) This is because all transactions must balance to net zero between two accounts, equal debits and credits.

’Transfer’ is merely a reference to the amount and other account you are moving the money to. (from the credit card, to somewhere else, likely an expense, as payments are usually entered from your banking register.)

If you choose Transaction Journal view, the Transfer column will go away because you don’t need it as you now see all debits and credits directly.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 10, 2019, at 11:58 PM, ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> On a credit Card account, they owe me $18.00 (I over paid).
> What do I enter for opening balance?  $18 or -$18?
>
> And do I put in Payment or Charge?
>
> When I enter a charge, why does "Transfer auto enter
> "Orphan-USD"?  What is "Orphan-USD" anyway?
>
> How do I tell the "transfer" column to bugger off and leave
> me alone, unless I specifically want to transfer something.
>
> Is there a way to turn "Transfer" off?
>
> Many thanks,
> -T


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Re: [GNC] credit card opening balance

GnuCash - User mailing list
 >> On Apr 10, 2019, at 11:58 PM, ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user
<[hidden email]> wrote:
 >>
 >> Hi All,
 >>
 >> On a credit Card account, they owe me $18.00 (I over paid).
 >> What do I enter for opening balance?  $18 or -$18?
 >>
 >> And do I put in Payment or Charge?
 >>
 >> When I enter a charge, why does "Transfer auto enter
 >> "Orphan-USD"?  What is "Orphan-USD" anyway?
 >>
 >> How do I tell the "transfer" column to bugger off and leave
 >> me alone, unless I specifically want to transfer something.
 >>
 >> Is there a way to turn "Transfer" off?
 >>
 >> Many thanks,
 >> -T


On 4/10/19 11:03 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

> If you enter negative numbers, it will flip to the other column. All numbers should be entered as positive. You choose to either enter them as payments or charges. (debits and credits respectively in formal terminology)
>
> Payments (debits, left column) decrease the amount owed for a liability.
> Charges (credits, right column) increase the amount owed for a liability.
>
> Since they owe you, you want to enter that amount on the payment side.
>
> The other account you want to use is Equity:Opening Balances (since you indicated this is the opening balance for that account at the point you are starting your books)
>
> While ‘payment’ may sound strange to you, the math will work out.
>
> Personally, I prefer formal accounting labels (debits/credits) as that is easier to keep straight in my mind. I also view all registers in Transaction Journal view and Double Line view. (Double Line view allows for a transaction-wide note field) This allows me to see all debits and credits at all times so I understand exactly what is happening with all transactions and nothing is hidden. (you can always toggle this as desired in the view menu, or set the preference globally) If you click the ’split’ button, you’ll see a similar view for a single transaction. (Auto-Split shows all splits only for the current transaction you are editing)
>
> When you enter transactions, you aren’t entering them in only one account, every transaction records money moving from one account to another. The current register is one account, you have to specify the other. If you don’t, GnuCash will use either the Orphan-USD or Imbalance-USD accounts. (USD is different for each currency used) This is because all transactions must balance to net zero between two accounts, equal debits and credits.
>
> ’Transfer’ is merely a reference to the amount and other account you are moving the money to. (from the credit card, to somewhere else, likely an expense, as payments are usually entered from your banking register.)
>
> If you choose Transaction Journal view, the Transfer column will go away because you don’t need it as you now see all debits and credits directly.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien

Thank you!  I will have to read it over several times to get
it to sink in.

Every time I enter a charge I get another equal lien with
payment.   This confuses the heck out of me as I make one
payment a month and have multiple charges that apply to it.



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Re: [GNC] credit card opening balance

Michael or Penny Novack
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
On 4/11/2019 12:58 AM, ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> On a credit Card account, they owe me $18.00 (I over paid).
> What do I enter for opening balance?  $18 or -$18?
> And do I put in Payment or Charge?
> When I enter a charge, why does "Transfer auto enter
> "Orphan-USD"?  What is "Orphan-USD" anyway?
> How do I tell the "transfer" column to bugger off and leave
> me alone, unless I specifically want to transfer something.
>
> Is there a way to turn "Transfer" off?
>
> Many thanks,

Please read the material provided (or refer to any standard "bookkeeping
101" text). Your questions indicate that you are having trouble
understanding the fundamentals of "double entry bookkeeping".

THEN get back to us with questions about what you still don't understand.

Michael D Novack
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Liz
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Re: [GNC] credit card opening balance

Liz
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 23:11:34 -0700
ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Every time I enter a charge I get another equal lien with
> payment.   This confuses the heck out of me as I make one
> payment a month and have multiple charges that apply to it.

That is not the way the system is meant to work...

Say we had Take away chinese tucker tonight

It cost $45 and was bought on the credit card

So the entry can be made either on the CreditCard 'account'
where $45 goes as 'charge' AND transfer to Expenses:TakeAway

OR

it could be made on the Expenses:TakeAway 'account' where $45 goes as
'expense' AND transfer to CreditCard

Then the amount owing on the credit card has gone up by $45. At the end
of the month you have the total recorded in the far right column.

If you use "traditional accounting labels" you will get those instead
of 'charge' and 'expense'

Liz
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Re: [GNC] credit card opening balance

David Carlson-4
On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 6:30 AM Liz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 23:11:34 -0700
> ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Every time I enter a charge I get another equal lien with
> > payment.   This confuses the heck out of me as I make one
> > payment a month and have multiple charges that apply to it.
>
> That is not the way the system is meant to work...
>
> Say we had Take away chinese tucker tonight
>
> It cost $45 and was bought on the credit card
>
> So the entry can be made either on the CreditCard 'account'
> where $45 goes as 'charge' AND transfer to Expenses:TakeAway
>
> OR
>
> it could be made on the Expenses:TakeAway 'account' where $45 goes as
> 'expense' AND transfer to CreditCard
>
> Then the amount owing on the credit card has gone up by $45. At the end
> of the month you have the total recorded in the far right column.
>
> If you use "traditional accounting labels" you will get those instead
> of 'charge' and 'expense'
>
> Liz
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>

Now I am confused, because I thought the topic was about which account to
assign an opening balance for a credit card to, then it changed to whether
to ... use "traditional accounting labels" ... instead of 'charge' and
'expense', with a side trip into whether to use single line or two line
views or transaction journal view.

The underlying transaction (once it is correctly entered) would remain the
same regardless of which view preference is selected or which account
register the transaction is viewed in.  I could tell you my personal view
preference, but that would just add to the confusion.  It is up to the user
to try them out and come to his own conclusion.

--
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] credit card opening balance

Adrien Monteleone-2
I had the same understanding.

The OP didn’t grok ’transfer’ and asked how to get rid of it.

So I advised to switch views to Transaction Journal.

Then he didn’t understand why there were two entries for each transaction (though I had already explained that would happen), a charge and a payment. (he hadn’t switched labels yet) Since he was still using informal labels, those are the column headings. So I again recommended switching to formal debit/credit labels.

It was then the OP, understanding what was happening, decided this was more ‘accounting’ than he was interested in accomplishing and so is likely going to use a spreadsheet instead.

All of this happened across about 3-4 separate threads, so you might not catch all of that in this one.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 12, 2019, at 7:11 AM, David Carlson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Now I am confused, because I thought the topic was about which account to
> assign an opening balance for a credit card to, then it changed to whether
> to ... use "traditional accounting labels" ... instead of 'charge' and
> 'expense', with a side trip into whether to use single line or two line
> views or transaction journal view.
>
> The underlying transaction (once it is correctly entered) would remain the
> same regardless of which view preference is selected or which account
> register the transaction is viewed in.  I could tell you my personal view
> preference, but that would just add to the confusion.  It is up to the user
> to try them out and come to his own conclusion.
>
> --
> David Carlson

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Re: [GNC] credit card opening balance

Gary Holtum
Adrian,
As entertaining as this thread has been, it is difficult for me to admit that I long for it to end. It is hard to watch you offer the quantity and quality of help to someone who apparently is living in another dimension. Anyway, I may be out of line and if so I'm sorry. I just hope the end is near.
Gary  

-----Original Message-----
From: gnucash-user [mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+diamondhranchqh=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Adrien Monteleone
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 12:07 PM
To: Gnucash Users
Subject: Re: [GNC] credit card opening balance

I had the same understanding.

The OP didn’t grok ’transfer’ and asked how to get rid of it.

So I advised to switch views to Transaction Journal.

Then he didn’t understand why there were two entries for each transaction (though I had already explained that would happen), a charge and a payment. (he hadn’t switched labels yet) Since he was still using informal labels, those are the column headings. So I again recommended switching to formal debit/credit labels.

It was then the OP, understanding what was happening, decided this was more ‘accounting’ than he was interested in accomplishing and so is likely going to use a spreadsheet instead.

All of this happened across about 3-4 separate threads, so you might not catch all of that in this one.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 12, 2019, at 7:11 AM, David Carlson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Now I am confused, because I thought the topic was about which account to
> assign an opening balance for a credit card to, then it changed to whether
> to ... use "traditional accounting labels" ... instead of 'charge' and
> 'expense', with a side trip into whether to use single line or two line
> views or transaction journal view.
>
> The underlying transaction (once it is correctly entered) would remain the
> same regardless of which view preference is selected or which account
> register the transaction is viewed in.  I could tell you my personal view
> preference, but that would just add to the confusion.  It is up to the user
> to try them out and come to his own conclusion.
>
> --
> David Carlson

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Re: [GNC] credit card opening balance

GnuCash - User mailing list
On 4/12/19 2:07 PM, Gary Holtum wrote:
> Adrian,
> As entertaining as this thread has been, it is difficult for me to admit that I long for it to end. It is hard to watch you offer the quantity and quality of help to someone who apparently is living in another dimension. Anyway, I may be out of line and if so I'm sorry. I just hope the end is near.
> Gary

It will NEVER END!  <maniacal laughter>

I just tried out a sweet check book registry program called
wxbanker.  Easier than hell to use.  But, no way to reconcile
anything.  Poop!

Looks like I am either back to a spread sheet or chasing down
what type of account Adrian told me to link.  I will find it
somewhere in the threads.

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Re: [GNC] credit card opening balance

Adrien Monteleone-2
Any asset account would do. You can use the cash or checking/bank account already created by the startup wizard, or add a new one. It doesn’t have to be anything special because you don’t care about it. It’s just to satisfy double-entry.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 13, 2019, at 1:47 AM, ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Looks like I am either back to a spread sheet or chasing down
> what type of account Adrian told me to link.  I will find it
> somewhere in the threads.


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Re: [GNC] credit card opening balance

GnuCash - User mailing list
On 4/13/19 12:30 AM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> Any asset account would do. You can use the cash or checking/bank account already created by the startup wizard, or add a new one. It doesn’t have to be anything special because you don’t care about it. It’s just to satisfy double-entry.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien

Thank you

I am going to start a new thread to describe how far I have got.



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