[GNC] Xcode project/buildable non X11 Mac version?

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[GNC] Xcode project/buildable non X11 Mac version?

kentsor
Much as I'd like to use a QB alternative, as a Mac user I can not stand
looking at GNUCash as it is now. The UI is staggeringly bad. The money I
save is not worth using this.

There must have been attempts by other Mac people to replace the UI in the
past. Most likely abandoned years ago so it'd be old versions but that's ok,
my accounting needs are straightforward. Where can I go to download (dare I
hope) an old Xcode project for an UI replacement for GNUCash ?



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Re: [GNC] Xcode project/buildable non X11 Mac version?

Geert Janssens-4
Where did you download your GnuCash version from ?

The one you find on the gnucash webpage is using a Quarz backend on MacOS, not
X11.

Regards,

Geert

On maandag 27 mei 2019 18:33:29 CEST kentsor wrote:

> Much as I'd like to use a QB alternative, as a Mac user I can not stand
> looking at GNUCash as it is now. The UI is staggeringly bad. The money I
> save is not worth using this.
>
> There must have been attempts by other Mac people to replace the UI in the
> past. Most likely abandoned years ago so it'd be old versions but that's ok,
> my accounting needs are straightforward. Where can I go to download (dare I
> hope) an old Xcode project for an UI replacement for GNUCash ?
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [GNC] Xcode project/buildable non X11 Mac version?

kentsor
I downloaded 3.5.1 intel from GNUCash.org. Quartz backend or not, it looks
like an X11 application.



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Re: [GNC] Xcode project/buildable non X11 Mac version?

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by kentsor


> On May 27, 2019, at 9:33 AM, kentsor <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Much as I'd like to use a QB alternative, as a Mac user I can not stand
> looking at GNUCash as it is now. The UI is staggeringly bad. The money I
> save is not worth using this.
>
> There must have been attempts by other Mac people to replace the UI in the
> past. Most likely abandoned years ago so it'd be old versions but that's ok,
> my accounting needs are straightforward. Where can I go to download (dare I
> hope) an old Xcode project for an UI replacement for GNUCash ?

No, no one has ever undertaken a MacOS-native UI for GnuCash. One of the core developers sketched out a QT one, covering only the basics, as an experiment a few years ago. The code is still present and I think working in the 2.6 series. You can use CMake to generate an Xcode project if you're averse to compiling on the command line. See https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Cutecash. Mind, it will look different from the Gtk UI that the distributed GnuCash uses, but it still won't look native.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: [GNC] Xcode project/buildable non X11 Mac version?

kentsor
John Ralls-2 wrote
> No, no one has ever undertaken a MacOS-native UI for GnuCash.

I'm surprised to hear that. The program could be very useful and far more
popular, but the list of UI issues I could draw up would be a long one
indeed. Accounting is unpleasant enough that I would not put up with a
program that looks and works like this. If it was just a few issues I'd be
more than willing to chip in and submit fixes as I have for two other
projects but this is just so thoroughly painful and alien to use. <rant>
I've always seen it as the perpetual tyranny by the vocal minorities that is
the bane of so many open source projects, forcing conformity to whatever pet
linux distro of the day over mass appeal and usefulness to the general
public. </rant>

I would also say that download counts of a given OS build is not any
indication of users willing to use the program.



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Re: [GNC] Xcode project/buildable non X11 Mac version?

John Ralls-2
You shouldn't be surprised. It's a lot of work to build a separate GUI for each platform and very few FLOSS projects have the resources for that.

GnuCash's GUI is built with the Gtk framework and yes, its X11 heritage shows through quite strongly. If that's a deal breaker for you, too bad.

There's no "tyranny of vocal minorities" in open source. There's a tyranny of the tiny minority of dedicated volunteers who put millions of hours of work every year into open source programs and give them away. You can accept the gift or not, your choice.

And roger, we don't think that every download turns into a user.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On May 27, 2019, at 10:43 AM, kentsor <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> John Ralls-2 wrote
>> No, no one has ever undertaken a MacOS-native UI for GnuCash.
>
> I'm surprised to hear that. The program could be very useful and far more
> popular, but the list of UI issues I could draw up would be a long one
> indeed. Accounting is unpleasant enough that I would not put up with a
> program that looks and works like this. If it was just a few issues I'd be
> more than willing to chip in and submit fixes as I have for two other
> projects but this is just so thoroughly painful and alien to use. <rant>
> I've always seen it as the perpetual tyranny by the vocal minorities that is
> the bane of so many open source projects, forcing conformity to whatever pet
> linux distro of the day over mass appeal and usefulness to the general
> public. </rant>
>
> I would also say that download counts of a given OS build is not any
> indication of users willing to use the program.
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [GNC] Xcode project/buildable non X11 Mac version?

Robert Heller
In reply to this post by kentsor
At Mon, 27 May 2019 12:43:27 -0500 (CDT) kentsor <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> John Ralls-2 wrote
> > No, no one has ever undertaken a MacOS-native UI for GnuCash.
>
> I'm surprised to hear that. The program could be very useful and far more
> popular, but the list of UI issues I could draw up would be a long one
> indeed. Accounting is unpleasant enough that I would not put up with a
> program that looks and works like this. If it was just a few issues I'd be
> more than willing to chip in and submit fixes as I have for two other
> projects but this is just so thoroughly painful and alien to use. <rant>
> I've always seen it as the perpetual tyranny by the vocal minorities that is
> the bane of so many open source projects, forcing conformity to whatever pet
> linux distro of the day over mass appeal and usefulness to the general
> public. </rant>

As John has said, *free* Open Source projects are always going to use *free*
Open Source GUI toolkits that support cross-platform projects. It turns out,
just about all *free* Open Source GUI toolkits have their roots in
Unix/Linux/X11. Writing a GUI-based project is hard enough, it is harder to
write multiple versions of such a project (to run on different platforms,
using different GUI toolkits). The only people who can "afford" to do that are
Microsoft, Adobe, and Intuit and the various game software houses. And that is
*all* paid software. The only way a *free* Open Source project is going to
have *any* chance of surviving on *volunteer* labor for any platform *outside*
of Linux, is if it uses a *free* Open Source *cross-platform* GUI toolkit.
This pretty much means one of the X11/Linux based toolkits, that supports
cross-platform projects. Note: there is no reason for *any* of the X11/Linux
based toolkits to be cross-platform in the first place, unless the authors /
maintainers of those toolkits put in the effort to make them work under a
non-X11/Linux system, which is actually the *hardest* part of writing and
maintaining those toolkits.

Note: even *Java* applications don't use the native GUI toolkits under
MS-Windows and MacOSX.  And Java is the ultimate in "cross-platform".  And it
too has its roots in Unix/X11 (after all, Sun Microsystems was building *Unix*
based hardware).

If there is any "tyranny" going on, the people you *really* should be ranting
at are Apple and Microsoft -- they are the ones who created the *propriatory*
GUI subsystems using *closed source* toolkits. Almost all programs using the
*native* GUI (for either MS-Windows or MacOSX) are going be either
single-platform programs or *paid* software (commercial or "shareware"). And
the "market" for non-Linux FOSS software is really very small, even though the
number of non-Linux users is larger than the number of Linux users.  Most of
the non-Linux computer users are more likely to *buy* software (and generally
pay far too much for it).

>
> I would also say that download counts of a given OS build is not any
> indication of users willing to use the program.
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [GNC] Xcode project/buildable non X11 Mac version?

Adrien Monteleone-2
In reply to this post by kentsor
kentsor,

A screenshot of what you are seeing might be instructive.

If what you are seeing looks like win95, something is wrong.

To be sure, v2.x looked really dated, but v3.x fits in much better on MacOS. It still isn’t native, but certainly is not jarring. One could also use some custom CSS to theme and tweak the appearance quite a bit. There are some wiki pages to guide you and we have a few threads here on the list on specifics. (some of that info from those threads ended up on the wiki as well)

Regards,
Adrien

> On May 27, 2019, at 11:33 AM, kentsor <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Much as I'd like to use a QB alternative, as a Mac user I can not stand
> looking at GNUCash as it is now. The UI is staggeringly bad. The money I
> save is not worth using this.
>
> There must have been attempts by other Mac people to replace the UI in the
> past. Most likely abandoned years ago so it'd be old versions but that's ok,
> my accounting needs are straightforward. Where can I go to download (dare I
> hope) an old Xcode project for an UI replacement for GNUCash ?

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