[GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

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[GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

Thomas Forrester
On Windows, as I recall, there was a seperate program in the Start menu
under GnuCash for previewing and selecting a visual theme to use with
GnuCash.  I don't see that, and the 3.x visual styles on Windows is not all
that attractive.  Was this feature removed?  If so, why??

Thank you.
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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

John Ralls-2


> On Jun 6, 2018, at 4:54 PM, Thomas Forrester <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Windows, as I recall, there was a seperate program in the Start menu
> under GnuCash for previewing and selecting a visual theme to use with
> GnuCash.  I don't see that, and the 3.x visual styles on Windows is not all
> that attractive.  Was this feature removed?  If so, why??

Yes, it was removed. GnuCash 3.x uses Gtk+-3.x because many Linux distributions dropped support for the older WebKit library that worked with Gtk+-2. The Windows Theme program worked only with Gtk+-2 and we were unable to find a similar program that works with Gtk+-3.

For instructions on how to theme Gtk+-3 see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GTK3 <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GTK3>.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

randix
/*Hope something similar comes back in a future version, cause speaking on
behalf of those who (1) don't have the time or (2) the skills or (3) the
patience, following the instructions in that wiki link to get some decent
color in GnuCash, well, that just "ain't" goin' happen.*/

*/Not user friendly.../*





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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

Geert Janssens-4
Op donderdag 7 juni 2018 19:03:09 CEST schreef randix:
> /*Hope something similar comes back in a future version, cause speaking on
> behalf of those who (1) don't have the time or (2) the skills or (3) the
> patience, following the instructions in that wiki link to get some decent
> color in GnuCash, well, that just "ain't" goin' happen.*/
>
> */Not user friendly.../*
>

It can certainly come back if someone is willing to spend developer time on
it.

Preferably someone who isn't already buried in other gnucash development
work...

Geert


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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

Thomas Forrester
I would have to agree.  Leaving all the Windows users to deal with a
single, not very appealing interface scheme is tragic.  It almost makes me
want to go back to 2.x until this situation has been dealt with.  2.x was
very stable and I had been able to find a theme I liked.  For the sake of
those Windows users who use this program on a daily basis, I think this
should be a development imperative.  I get that this program was born on
Linux and is developed and maintained there, and that's perfectly
brilliant.  So, too, is a similar situation for my favorite recreational
program - the X-Plane flight simulator.  It was written in the Mac world
and has version for other platforms.  Despite it's Mac origins, its most
used platform (and highest performance platform) is Windows.

I cannot devote hardware to a Linux box just for GnuCash, and wouldn't want
to have to go to another machine to do my accounting anyway.  Although I
could spool up a virtual machine with a Linux distro in Oracle VM
VirtualBox (and already have two) I find that they inevitably blow up for
some unknown reason.  I just cannot justify putting my financial data on a
precarious virtual machine.

Please, Please, Please don't let the Windows users fall to second-class
status.  That, IMHO, would be a huge mistake.



On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 12:18 PM Geert Janssens <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Op donderdag 7 juni 2018 19:03:09 CEST schreef randix:
> > /*Hope something similar comes back in a future version, cause speaking
> on
> > behalf of those who (1) don't have the time or (2) the skills or (3) the
> > patience, following the instructions in that wiki link to get some decent
> > color in GnuCash, well, that just "ain't" goin' happen.*/
> >
> > */Not user friendly.../*
> >
>
> It can certainly come back if someone is willing to spend developer time
> on
> it.
>
> Preferably someone who isn't already buried in other gnucash development
> work...
>
> Geert
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

pj42uk
Totally agree.
Peter


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On 8 June 2018 at 13:05, Thomas Forrester <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would have to agree.  Leaving all the Windows users to deal with a
> single, not very appealing interface scheme is tragic.  It almost makes me
> want to go back to 2.x until this situation has been dealt with.  2.x was
> very stable and I had been able to find a theme I liked.  For the sake of
> those Windows users who use this program on a daily basis, I think this
> should be a development imperative.  I get that this program was born on
> Linux and is developed and maintained there, and that's perfectly
> brilliant.  So, too, is a similar situation for my favorite recreational
> program - the X-Plane flight simulator.  It was written in the Mac world
> and has version for other platforms.  Despite it's Mac origins, its most
> used platform (and highest performance platform) is Windows.
>
> I cannot devote hardware to a Linux box just for GnuCash, and wouldn't want
> to have to go to another machine to do my accounting anyway.  Although I
> could spool up a virtual machine with a Linux distro in Oracle VM
> VirtualBox (and already have two) I find that they inevitably blow up for
> some unknown reason.  I just cannot justify putting my financial data on a
> precarious virtual machine.
>
> Please, Please, Please don't let the Windows users fall to second-class
> status.  That, IMHO, would be a huge mistake.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 12:18 PM Geert Janssens <[hidden email]
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Op donderdag 7 juni 2018 19:03:09 CEST schreef randix:
> > > /*Hope something similar comes back in a future version, cause speaking
> > on
> > > behalf of those who (1) don't have the time or (2) the skills or (3)
> the
> > > patience, following the instructions in that wiki link to get some
> decent
> > > color in GnuCash, well, that just "ain't" goin' happen.*/
> > >
> > > */Not user friendly.../*
> > >
> >
> > It can certainly come back if someone is willing to spend developer time
> > on
> > it.
> >
> > Preferably someone who isn't already buried in other gnucash development
> > work...
> >
> > Geert
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
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> >
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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

cicko
In reply to this post by Thomas Forrester
Perhaps Geert's were not clear enough. The theming in GnuCash relies (more or
less) completely on GTK framework. This framework, in version 3, has moved
completely to open standards (read CSS) for styling, allowing many more
people to customize the visual appearance of GTK applications.
Also, if you look at sites like https://www.gnome-look.org/, you might
notice ~1000 different GTK3 themes.
All you need to do is place the downloaded files into an appropriate
directory.
If all you want is a dark theme (whether on Windows or Linux), it gets even
easier. All you need to do is create one settings file and copy/paste two
lines into it.
If this is too much effort, hopefully you can find someone to do it for you.
If that is also not an option, then too bad.
I think that spending development time of GnuCash developers on reinventing
the wheel would really be a waste, considering the above. There are many
more bugs and features to work on, which are more closely related to the
core field of GnuCash.



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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

Thomas Forrester
I think trying to make al the Windows users into programmers just so they
can get a theme they like - something they always had in 2.x - is a crying
shame.  I've said it before, but I guess I'll say it again, I realize this
application is developed primarily on Linux.  That's completely awesome,
but like many other cross-platform applications, I suspect the installed
base of Windows users may eclipse all others.  I've seen this before where
the development platform takes second-fiddle to Windows as the most popular
usage platform.  I'm not trying to create debate on what platform is good
for what, but I do think it's important to maintain feature parity between
platforms.  This theming issue on Windows should be addressed in an update
soon.

That said, if it's as simple as getting some files, or adding a two-line
file somewhere, please tell me where to go to get the files, where they
need to be put, and what to put in a file.  A tutorial on how to manually
theme GnuCash on Windows is better than no option at all.

Thanks!

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 4:25 AM cicko <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Perhaps Geert's were not clear enough. The theming in GnuCash relies (more
> or
> less) completely on GTK framework. This framework, in version 3, has moved
> completely to open standards (read CSS) for styling, allowing many more
> people to customize the visual appearance of GTK applications.
> Also, if you look at sites like https://www.gnome-look.org/, you might
> notice ~1000 different GTK3 themes.
> All you need to do is place the downloaded files into an appropriate
> directory.
> If all you want is a dark theme (whether on Windows or Linux), it gets even
> easier. All you need to do is create one settings file and copy/paste two
> lines into it.
> If this is too much effort, hopefully you can find someone to do it for
> you.
> If that is also not an option, then too bad.
> I think that spending development time of GnuCash developers on reinventing
> the wheel would really be a waste, considering the above. There are many
> more bugs and features to work on, which are more closely related to the
> core field of GnuCash.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

Geert Janssens-4
Op woensdag 4 juli 2018 13:56:36 CEST schreef Thomas Forrester:
> I think trying to make al the Windows users into programmers just so they
> can get a theme they like - something they always had in 2.x - is a crying
> shame.

Personally I think you're overreacting here. How many more serious
applications on Windows allow custom themes ? I don't think MS Office does,
nor LibreOffice, Firefox used to have something like personalities, but I
think they dropped that as well. And for sure *none* of the accounting
packages I have personally used on Windows (Winbooks, Expert M, Vero,
Popsy,...) did have anything like custom themes.

I agree it's unfortunate gnucash can't provide a nice gui for that at this
point and I understand very well the frustration of seeing a feature you
relied disappear.

> I've said it before, but I guess I'll say it again, I realize this
> application is developed primarily on Linux.  That's completely awesome,
> but like many other cross-platform applications, I suspect the installed
> base of Windows users may eclipse all others.  I've seen this before where
> the development platform takes second-fiddle to Windows as the most popular
> usage platform.  I'm not trying to create debate on what platform is good
> for what, but I do think it's important to maintain feature parity between
> platforms.  This theming issue on Windows should be addressed in an update
> soon.
>
So I'll repeat as well what I've said before: someone has to step in to
provide the code. The currently active developers are working on more serious
issues (program crashes, broken pre-existing functionality,...)

So as there are so many more Windows users than on other platforms: I'm
eagerly waiting for some of those Windows native users to care enough about
gnucash to actually want to help in coding Windows specific features. This is
a community project after all!

> That said, if it's as simple as getting some files, or adding a two-line
> file somewhere, please tell me where to go to get the files, where they
> need to be put, and what to put in a file.  A tutorial on how to manually
> theme GnuCash on Windows is better than no option at all.
>
That information is collected on this wiki page:
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GTK3

Regards,

Geert


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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

Thomas Forrester
You're right Geert, this class of application rarely has theming
capabilities, but it was a very nice feature of GnuCash and it at least had
the capability of dressing up an otherwise rather utilitarian interface.

Personally, if you would just go in and adjust the tool-tips to be
something other that thin white text on a jet black background, I'd be 3/4
the way to happy.  The text literally takes on a rainbow effect on my
monitors because the antialiasing isn't correct for the colors used and the
stroke weight of the font.  That can't be a huge undertaking to fix. Don't
worry about the antialiasing, just make the font color black, and font
weight bold and set the background color to maybe 15% grey and it ought to
look way better.

As for stepping up, I'd love to, and I used to develop financial systems
customizations and full modules in what has slowly morphed from Solomon IV
to Great Plains to Microsoft Dynamics.  But that was in a Visual Basic 6 /
MS SQL Server environment.  Not to mention somewhere around 18 years ago.
I have no idea how to develop anything in the Linux environment, and don't
even know what language GnuCash is written in.  Never been involved in a
"community" project of this magnitude.  Overall, I think the problem you
face is that your audience (whatever platform they are on) are accountants
and bookkeepers, not programmers.  Hard to find just the right development
skill set and knowledge of accounting all in one person.

And thank you for listening to my gripe anyway,  ;)

Tom





On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 7:33 AM Geert Janssens <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Op woensdag 4 juli 2018 13:56:36 CEST schreef Thomas Forrester:
> > I think trying to make al the Windows users into programmers just so they
> > can get a theme they like - something they always had in 2.x - is a
> crying
> > shame.
>
> Personally I think you're overreacting here. How many more serious
> applications on Windows allow custom themes ? I don't think MS Office
> does,
> nor LibreOffice, Firefox used to have something like personalities, but I
> think they dropped that as well. And for sure *none* of the accounting
> packages I have personally used on Windows (Winbooks, Expert M, Vero,
> Popsy,...) did have anything like custom themes.
>
> I agree it's unfortunate gnucash can't provide a nice gui for that at this
> point and I understand very well the frustration of seeing a feature you
> relied disappear.
>
> > I've said it before, but I guess I'll say it again, I realize this
> > application is developed primarily on Linux.  That's completely awesome,
> > but like many other cross-platform applications, I suspect the installed
> > base of Windows users may eclipse all others.  I've seen this before
> where
> > the development platform takes second-fiddle to Windows as the most
> popular
> > usage platform.  I'm not trying to create debate on what platform is good
> > for what, but I do think it's important to maintain feature parity
> between
> > platforms.  This theming issue on Windows should be addressed in an
> update
> > soon.
> >
> So I'll repeat as well what I've said before: someone has to step in to
> provide the code. The currently active developers are working on more
> serious
> issues (program crashes, broken pre-existing functionality,...)
>
> So as there are so many more Windows users than on other platforms: I'm
> eagerly waiting for some of those Windows native users to care enough
> about
> gnucash to actually want to help in coding Windows specific features. This
> is
> a community project after all!
>
> > That said, if it's as simple as getting some files, or adding a two-line
> > file somewhere, please tell me where to go to get the files, where they
> > need to be put, and what to put in a file.  A tutorial on how to manually
> > theme GnuCash on Windows is better than no option at all.
> >
> That information is collected on this wiki page:
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GTK3
>
> Regards,
>
> Geert
>
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

cicko
Well, Tom, it's certainly an interesting discussion in general. :)

I'd like to make two points:

- You keep referring to Windows and I'm not sure why. At the moment I'm
using GnuCash on both Windows and Linux and can't say that there is much
difference if we talk about changing visual appearance. Both are using dark
themes. On Linux it is set at the OS level (window manager, actually) and in
Windows I simply followed a tip from Geert, now listed at
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GTK3, section 1.2.1 Dark Themes. All it takes
is to create a settings.ini plain text file at %LOCALAPPDATA%\gtk-3.0 (you
can paste that in Windows Explorer's address bar) and add the two lines
listed there on the page.
If you are looking for other types of customizations, do read that whole
page. It *will* get simpler if you read it a few times over a few days.
Things somehow sink in. Especially if you also try it in practice once,
fail, try it again on another day. It works miracles.

- Another point is about users not being developers. I get this a lot in all
the Open Source projects I contributed to. And perhaps it is easy for me to
say because I *am* a professional developer, but I could say that I know *a
lot* of people who used to fix their own cars. None of them were car
mechanics. A few people I know can fix almost anything they have at home (as
long as it does not have software in it! :)) but they are not professional
craftsmen or anything like that. Do note that it is year 2018. There is now
almost nothing out there that works without software. It is up to you if you
want to be semi-literate (sorry if it is sounds harsh, but yes, it is the
21st century, the age of Hal 9000 and all that), and yes, even HTML and CSS
count in "programming" nowadays. What I would really, *really*, like you too
look at is this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK1mBqKvIyU. He has a much
better way of explaining this. Just look at the first five minutes if you
don't have more time. You'll see what I mean. If you can make a figure out
of wood and you're not a carpenter then why also not make your own
accounting program or a tool to change visual appearance of it?

This is addressed to all the users who shy away from doing any
"development", nothing personal.

Cheers



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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

pj42uk
Your posting promped me to try this,  and starting with the sample
GTK-3.0.css, having read the wiki 3 times, I've got it working and changed
some colours. It is actually quite easy, even for a 76-year-old.
Thank you.


Nurton Court
Middleton-on-the-Hill
Ludlow SY8 4BD
Tel: 01568 750 248 Mob: 07955 586 476

On 4 July 2018 at 21:07, cicko <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well, Tom, it's certainly an interesting discussion in general. :)
>
> I'd like to make two points:
>
> - You keep referring to Windows and I'm not sure why. At the moment I'm
> using GnuCash on both Windows and Linux and can't say that there is much
> difference if we talk about changing visual appearance. Both are using dark
> themes. On Linux it is set at the OS level (window manager, actually) and
> in
> Windows I simply followed a tip from Geert, now listed at
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GTK3, section 1.2.1 Dark Themes. All it
> takes
> is to create a settings.ini plain text file at %LOCALAPPDATA%\gtk-3.0 (you
> can paste that in Windows Explorer's address bar) and add the two lines
> listed there on the page.
> If you are looking for other types of customizations, do read that whole
> page. It *will* get simpler if you read it a few times over a few days.
> Things somehow sink in. Especially if you also try it in practice once,
> fail, try it again on another day. It works miracles.
>
> - Another point is about users not being developers. I get this a lot in
> all
> the Open Source projects I contributed to. And perhaps it is easy for me to
> say because I *am* a professional developer, but I could say that I know *a
> lot* of people who used to fix their own cars. None of them were car
> mechanics. A few people I know can fix almost anything they have at home
> (as
> long as it does not have software in it! :)) but they are not professional
> craftsmen or anything like that. Do note that it is year 2018. There is now
> almost nothing out there that works without software. It is up to you if
> you
> want to be semi-literate (sorry if it is sounds harsh, but yes, it is the
> 21st century, the age of Hal 9000 and all that), and yes, even HTML and CSS
> count in "programming" nowadays. What I would really, *really*, like you
> too
> look at is this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK1mBqKvIyU. He has a
> much
> better way of explaining this. Just look at the first five minutes if you
> don't have more time. You'll see what I mean. If you can make a figure out
> of wood and you're not a carpenter then why also not make your own
> accounting program or a tool to change visual appearance of it?
>
> This is addressed to all the users who shy away from doing any
> "development", nothing personal.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [GNC] Where is the theme selection in 3.x?

cicko
pj42uk wrote
> Your posting promped me to try this,  and starting with the sample
> GTK-3.0.css, having read the wiki 3 times, I've got it working and changed
> some colours. It is actually quite easy, even for a 76-year-old.
> Thank you.

Thank you for the feedback! That's really heart-warming.



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