[GNC] Using a mysql database?

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[GNC] Using a mysql database?

Jacob Larsen
Hi

How reliable is my data if I move from an XML file to a mysql database?
I just tried saving my books in a mysql (MariaDB) database, reload from
the database, and then saving back to an XML file. The files are of the
same size, and they have a large chunk that is identical on both sides
in my difftool. But there is also a large chunk that differs, so most
likely the order is shuffled. I started xmldiff on it just to see what
it finds, but that tool has not yet returned.

Does anyone here know if there are any issues with data reliability when
saving data in a mysql database?

Also, do you happen to know a difftool for xml files that runs faster
than xmldiff? I started xmldiff on the 2x50MB (uncompressed) files I
have lying around, and it is still running for the last hour or so.

/Jacob

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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

John Ralls-2


> On Mar 12, 2019, at 3:39 PM, Jacob Larsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> How reliable is my data if I move from an XML file to a mysql database? I just tried saving my books in a mysql (MariaDB) database, reload from the database, and then saving back to an XML file. The files are of the same size, and they have a large chunk that is identical on both sides in my difftool. But there is also a large chunk that differs, so most likely the order is shuffled. I started xmldiff on it just to see what it finds, but that tool has not yet returned.
>
> Does anyone here know if there are any issues with data reliability when saving data in a mysql database?
>
> Also, do you happen to know a difftool for xml files that runs faster than xmldiff? I started xmldiff on the 2x50MB (uncompressed) files I have lying around, and it is still running for the last hour or so.
>

Jacob,

The list of open SQL backend bugs is https://bugs.gnucash.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&component=Backend%20-%20SQL&list_id=3199&query_format=advanced. AFAICT none affect data integrity.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Joseph Vernice
Been using MySQL DB for gnu cash for many years, mainly because of
security. Never had a problem. Very reliable and fast on my lan server.
Not sure how fast over internet.


On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 7:37 PM John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> > On Mar 12, 2019, at 3:39 PM, Jacob Larsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > How reliable is my data if I move from an XML file to a mysql database?
> I just tried saving my books in a mysql (MariaDB) database, reload from the
> database, and then saving back to an XML file. The files are of the same
> size, and they have a large chunk that is identical on both sides in my
> difftool. But there is also a large chunk that differs, so most likely the
> order is shuffled. I started xmldiff on it just to see what it finds, but
> that tool has not yet returned.
> >
> > Does anyone here know if there are any issues with data reliability when
> saving data in a mysql database?
> >
> > Also, do you happen to know a difftool for xml files that runs faster
> than xmldiff? I started xmldiff on the 2x50MB (uncompressed) files I have
> lying around, and it is still running for the last hour or so.
> >
>
> Jacob,
>
> The list of open SQL backend bugs is
> https://bugs.gnucash.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&component=Backend%20-%20SQL&list_id=3199&query_format=advanced.
> AFAICT none affect data integrity.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Bucky Carr


On 3/12/2019 6:14 PM, Joseph Vernice wrote:
> Been using MySQL DB for gnu cash for many years, mainly because of
> security. Never had a problem. Very reliable and fast on my lan server.
> Not sure how fast over internet.

Hi. Can you explain a bit how the MySQL db is more secure than the
standard xml, for example?

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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Colin Law
In reply to this post by Jacob Larsen
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 at 22:42, Jacob Larsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> How reliable is my data if I move from an XML file to a mysql database?

Do you have a specific reason for wanting to do that?

Colin
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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Joseph Vernice
In reply to this post by Bucky Carr
There are no logon credentials for an XML database, making it easy for
someone to access your data.  I use a mysql database that requires
credentials to log on.  Also, I change the port from the default 3306 to
something else.  The port is blocked by my firewall.  I can do this only
because the DB server is on my LAN.

On 3/12/2019 8:38 PM, Bucky Carr wrote:

>
>
> On 3/12/2019 6:14 PM, Joseph Vernice wrote:
>> Been using MySQL DB for gnu cash for many years, mainly because of
>> security. Never had a problem. Very reliable and fast on my lan server.
>> Not sure how fast over internet.
>
> Hi. Can you explain a bit how the MySQL db is more secure than the
> standard xml, for example?
>
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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Derek Atkins-3
Joseph,

On Wed, March 13, 2019 8:53 am, Joseph Vernice wrote:
> There are no logon credentials for an XML database,

Sure there are -- your user account login credentials!

Unless, of course, you don't HAVE user login credentials, at which point I
would say "there's your problem"!

>  making it easy for someone to access your data. 

They would need to break into your computer, first, to access your data!
MySQL has a network flair to it, which means that there are probably MORE
people who can access that than your laptop/desktop with correct user
account settings.

>    I use a mysql database that requires
> credentials to log on.  Also, I change the port from the default 3306 to
> something else.  The port is blocked by my firewall.  I can do this only
> because the DB server is on my LAN.

Note that AFAIK, mysql connections are not encrypted, so someone listening
on your network could see your data.  Your password is probably secure
because I do believe that it uses a hashed value over the wire. But if
you're doing it for security only, you're kind of missing the point.  :(

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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Bucky Carr
In reply to this post by Joseph Vernice

Thank you. Didn't know you could make a MySQL db, logon-only.

On 3/13/2019 6:53 AM, Joseph Vernice wrote:
> There are no logon credentials for an XML database, making it easy
> for someone to access your data.  I use a mysql database that
> requires credentials to log on.  Also, I change the port from the
> default 3306 to something else.  The port is blocked by my
> firewall.  I can do this only because the DB server is on my LAN.

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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Maf. King
In reply to this post by Joseph Vernice
On Wednesday, 13 March 2019 12:53:13 GMT Joseph Vernice wrote:
> There are no logon credentials for an XML database, making it easy for
> someone to access your data.  I use a mysql database that requires
> credentials to log on.  Also, I change the port from the default 3306 to
> something else.  The port is blocked by my firewall.  I can do this only
> because the DB server is on my LAN.
>

Hi Joseph,

Does MySQL default to encrypt the data it stores on disk?

I know the XML isn't encrypted by default, but it isn't especially hard to do
with the correct tools at one's disposal, (along with other sensitive files
that might be lurking under ~/ )

I'm not sure that there's much *real* security gain (vs perceived gain) from
the requirement of an extra password to open the database in MySQL?

Maf.
 




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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Craig Van Tassle
In reply to this post by Joseph Vernice
I have been using GnuCash with a MySQL database. I used it for the
ability to replicate to an offsite backup/slave.
That feature has saved me a number of times.

Local LAN is very fast. Even over a slow WAN connection it's pretty fast
as long as I keep the Database limited to about a year.
If I kept more then 3 years of moderate personal use, then it would
start to slow down but not badly.


On 2019-03-12 20:14, Joseph Vernice wrote:

> Been using MySQL DB for gnu cash for many years, mainly because of
> security. Never had a problem. Very reliable and fast on my lan server.
> Not sure how fast over internet.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 7:37 PM John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 12, 2019, at 3:39 PM, Jacob Larsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > How reliable is my data if I move from an XML file to a mysql database?
>> I just tried saving my books in a mysql (MariaDB) database, reload
>> from the
>> database, and then saving back to an XML file. The files are of the
>> same
>> size, and they have a large chunk that is identical on both sides in
>> my
>> difftool. But there is also a large chunk that differs, so most likely
>> the
>> order is shuffled. I started xmldiff on it just to see what it finds,
>> but
>> that tool has not yet returned.
>> >
>> > Does anyone here know if there are any issues with data reliability when
>> saving data in a mysql database?
>> >
>> > Also, do you happen to know a difftool for xml files that runs faster
>> than xmldiff? I started xmldiff on the 2x50MB (uncompressed) files I
>> have
>> lying around, and it is still running for the last hour or so.
>> >
>>
>> Jacob,
>>
>> The list of open SQL backend bugs is
>> https://bugs.gnucash.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&component=Backend%20-%20SQL&list_id=3199&query_format=advanced.
>> AFAICT none affect data integrity.
>>
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Stephen M. Butler
In reply to this post by Colin Law
On 3/13/19 1:27 AM, Colin Law wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 at 22:42, Jacob Larsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> How reliable is my data if I move from an XML file to a mysql database?
> Do you have a specific reason for wanting to do that?
>
> Colin
> _
Also remember that data is only as reliable as that which is entered. 
The third law of thermodynamics states it only gets worse over time.

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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Jacob Larsen
In reply to this post by Colin Law
Hi

It is mainly to get around the long load times and stalls on autosaves
for v3.x. But having it (sequentially) accessible from multiple PCs is
an interesting bonus.

I will have it accessible on WAN through an SSH tunnel too, but I
suspect that the performance might not be very good here, so definitely
not a primary use case.

/Jacob

On 13/03/2019 09.27, Colin Law wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 at 22:42, Jacob Larsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> How reliable is my data if I move from an XML file to a mysql database?
> Do you have a specific reason for wanting to do that?
>
> Colin
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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

GnuCash - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Stephen M. Butler
On 3/13/19 1:15 PM, Stephen M. Butler wrote:
> Also remember that data is only as reliable as that which is entered. 
> The third law of thermodynamics states it only gets worse over time.

A database rule I encountered and seems to be true is a corrolary to GI-GO:

A databbase's data are only good if the people entering the data are
those that are going to use it. If you have rooms full of bored clerks
typing it in on terminals, who have no idea what it means, and could not
care less, the data will be bad to begin with. And, as you said, its
entropy will only increase.

I remember a database of telephone directory entries that someone had
run a program on to improve it.

One entry was TOYS R US that got corrected to TOYS R UNITED STATES


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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

GnuCash - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Jacob Larsen
If you're hoping that the db version is going to load faster, you should probably abandon that. As I have been told, the startup for the db isn't faster because Gnucash still loads the entire file into memory at startup. Saves are instant, though.

On March 14, 2019, at 12:11 AM, Jacob Larsen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

It is mainly to get around the long load times and stalls on autosaves
for v3.x. But having it (sequentially) accessible from multiple PCs is
an interesting bonus.

I will have it accessible on WAN through an SSH tunnel too, but I
suspect that the performance might not be very good here, so definitely
not a primary use case.

/Jacob

On 13/03/2019 09.27, Colin Law wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 at 22:42, Jacob Larsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> How reliable is my data if I move from an XML file to a mysql database?
> Do you have a specific reason for wanting to do that?
>
> Colin
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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

elvis-5
In reply to this post by Joseph Vernice
It's trivial to reset a mysql password, if you are relying on that to
provide ANY kind of security you might want to rethink.


Lawrence

On 13/3/19 10:53 pm, Joseph Vernice wrote:

> There are no logon credentials for an XML database, making it easy for
> someone to access your data.  I use a mysql database that requires
> credentials to log on.  Also, I change the port from the default 3306
> to something else.  The port is blocked by my firewall.  I can do this
> only because the DB server is on my LAN.
>
> On 3/12/2019 8:38 PM, Bucky Carr wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 3/12/2019 6:14 PM, Joseph Vernice wrote:
>>> Been using MySQL DB for gnu cash for many years, mainly because of
>>> security. Never had a problem. Very reliable and fast on my lan server.
>>> Not sure how fast over internet.
>>
>> Hi. Can you explain a bit how the MySQL db is more secure than the
>> standard xml, for example?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Jacob Larsen
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
Ahh. It felt like it loaded faster from the database, but I just timed
it and it is the same. In any case, the stalls on autosave are enough to
switch to a database for me.

I have to add though that even if day-to-day writes to the database are
instant then the initial import does take forever. Just one time though.

/Jacob

On 13/03/2019 19.52, D wrote:

> If you're hoping that the db version is going to load faster, you should probably abandon that. As I have been told, the startup for the db isn't faster because Gnucash still loads the entire file into memory at startup. Saves are instant, though.
>
> On March 14, 2019, at 12:11 AM, Jacob Larsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> It is mainly to get around the long load times and stalls on autosaves
> for v3.x. But having it (sequentially) accessible from multiple PCs is
> an interesting bonus.
>
> I will have it accessible on WAN through an SSH tunnel too, but I
> suspect that the performance might not be very good here, so definitely
> not a primary use case.
>
> /Jacob
>
> On 13/03/2019 09.27, Colin Law wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 at 22:42, Jacob Larsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> How reliable is my data if I move from an XML file to a mysql database?
>> Do you have a specific reason for wanting to do that?
>>
>> Colin
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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Klaus Dahlke-2
In reply to this post by Colin Law
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 08:27:13 +0000
Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 at 22:42, Jacob Larsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > How reliable is my data if I move from an XML file to a mysql database?
>
> Do you have a specific reason for wanting to do that?
>
> Colin
> _______________________________________________

I run gnucash on postgresql since many years without an issue. One advantage for using a databsae is for that I can do reporting via ruby on rails from the database tables (read only access).

Cheers,
Klaus
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Re: [GNC] Using a mysql database?

Jacob Larsen
In reply to this post by Stephen M. Butler
On 13/03/2019 18.15, Stephen M. Butler wrote:
> Also remember that data is only as reliable as that which is entered.
> The third law of thermodynamics states it only gets worse over time.

Yes, but that is the same for XML I suppose. I am specifically after
anything that might alter the data, that is not done by me. And to begin
with, I just want to be sure that the same data from the XML file gets
stored in the database. GI-GO applies as always, but if I can be sure
that GI == GO then I am happy.

/Jacob

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