[GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

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[GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

Geert Janssens-4
Hi,

I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on the
assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following reports:

Average Balance
Expenses vs. Day of Week
Income vs. Day of Week
Sample Report with Examples

Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
"Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu) and hide this menu by
default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
command line switch.

If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which ones
and also how these reports benefit you in practice.

Regards,

Geert


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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

Stephen C. Camidge
How will this work for those of us who do not use a command line? A new preference?

Steve


--
Stephen C. Camidge             [hidden email]   (519) 363-3912

On Sat, May 18, 2019, at 8:21 AM, Geert Janssens wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
> This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on the
> assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
> gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following reports:
>
> Average Balance
> Expenses vs. Day of Week
> Income vs. Day of Week
> Sample Report with Examples
>
> Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
> "Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu) and hide this menu by
> default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
> command line switch.
>
> If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which ones
> and also how these reports benefit you in practice.
>
> Regards,
>
> Geert
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

GnuCash - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Geert Janssens-4
Steve,

Do you use any of these reports?

If not, then you won't suffer from the loss. The whole point of hiding these reports is that they aren't generally used.

David

On May 18, 2019, at 9:27 PM, "Stephen C. Camidge" <[hidden email]> wrote:

How will this work for those of us who do not use a command line? A new preference?

Steve


--
Stephen C. Camidge             [hidden email]   (519) 363-3912

On Sat, May 18, 2019, at 8:21 AM, Geert Janssens wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
> This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on the
> assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
> gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following reports:
>
> Average Balance
> Expenses vs. Day of Week
> Income vs. Day of Week
> Sample Report with Examples
>
> Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
> "Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu) and hide this menu by
> default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
> command line switch.
>
> If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which ones
> and also how these reports benefit you in practice.
>
> Regards,
>
> Geert
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
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>
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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

Stephen C. Camidge
I am a Mac user - I like options.

No, I do not use those report.

Steve


--
Stephen C. Camidge             [hidden email]   (519) 363-3912

On Sat, May 18, 2019, at 1:14 PM, D wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Do you use any of these reports?
>
> If not, then you won't suffer from the loss. The whole point of hiding
> these reports is that they aren't generally used.
>
> David
>
> On May 18, 2019, at 9:27 PM, "Stephen C. Camidge" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> How will this work for those of us who do not use a command line? A new
> preference?
>
> Steve
>
>
> --
> Stephen C. Camidge             [hidden email]   (519) 363-3912
>
> On Sat, May 18, 2019, at 8:21 AM, Geert Janssens wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
> > This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on the
> > assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
> > gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following reports:
> >
> > Average Balance
> > Expenses vs. Day of Week
> > Income vs. Day of Week
> > Sample Report with Examples
> >
> > Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
> > "Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu) and hide this menu by
> > default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
> > command line switch.
> >
> > If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which ones
> > and also how these reports benefit you in practice.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Geert
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > -----
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

GnuCash - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Geert Janssens-4
Well, as a Mac user, you can run Gnucash from a terminal prompt and add the switch, if that's what you want. In my 13 plus years of using Gnucash, I've never needed these reports.

David

On May 18, 2019, at 10:50 PM, "Stephen C. Camidge" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am a Mac user - I like options.

No, I do not use those report.

Steve


--
Stephen C. Camidge             [hidden email]   (519) 363-3912

On Sat, May 18, 2019, at 1:14 PM, D wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Do you use any of these reports?
>
> If not, then you won't suffer from the loss. The whole point of hiding
> these reports is that they aren't generally used.
>
> David
>
> On May 18, 2019, at 9:27 PM, "Stephen C. Camidge" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> How will this work for those of us who do not use a command line? A new
> preference?
>
> Steve
>
>
> --
> Stephen C. Camidge             [hidden email]   (519) 363-3912
>
> On Sat, May 18, 2019, at 8:21 AM, Geert Janssens wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
> > This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on the
> > assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
> > gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following reports:
> >
> > Average Balance
> > Expenses vs. Day of Week
> > Income vs. Day of Week
> > Sample Report with Examples
> >
> > Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
> > "Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu) and hide this menu by
> > default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
> > command line switch.
> >
> > If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which ones
> > and also how these reports benefit you in practice.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Geert
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > -----
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
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[GNC] Fw: Upcoming report deprecation

GnuCash - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Geert Janssens-4
Sending to list from correct email address.
  The Average Balance report would seem to have merit in my mind, such as tracking a portfolio over time, but I decided to test it to see what it's capable of.  In my testing, I found it can be rmostly eplicated by using the Net Worth linechart graph (most significant difference is you can't show only the assets line, and it's a line chart instead of a bar chart).  The Average Balance report has the downside of taking about 15-20 minutes to run and generate the initial report versus the minute or so for the Net Worth linechart graphic.  So, while I think the average balance report has it's uses, I don't think it's a great report to use.  If it were to be improved, I don't know if I would relegate it to the extra menu, or merge it entirely with the Net Worth line charts.

Thanks,Matt

    On Saturday, May 18, 2019, 7:21:17 AM CDT, Geert Janssens <[hidden email]> wrote:  
 
 Hi,

I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on the
assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following reports:

Average Balance
Expenses vs. Day of Week
Income vs. Day of Week
Sample Report with Examples

Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
"Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu) and hide this menu by
default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
command line switch.

If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which ones
and also how these reports benefit you in practice.

Regards,

Geert


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Re: [GNC] Fw: Upcoming report deprecation

Christopher Lam
These benchmarks are always useful. Would you mind describing
characteristics of your books? e.g. number of accounts, number of
currencies/commodities, approx no.transactions etc? I'm sure 3.5
average-balance should be faster than prior versions.

This may be moot if average-balance will be hidden soon, but IMHO the
networth linechart taking 1minute is still an interesting issue and I'd be
keen to know why.


On Sat, 18 May 2019 at 18:33, Matthew Forbis via gnucash-user <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sending to list from correct email address.
>   The Average Balance report would seem to have merit in my mind, such as
> tracking a portfolio over time, but I decided to test it to see what it's
> capable of.  In my testing, I found it can be rmostly eplicated by using
> the Net Worth linechart graph (most significant difference is you can't
> show only the assets line, and it's a line chart instead of a bar chart).
> The Average Balance report has the downside of taking about 15-20 minutes
> to run and generate the initial report versus the minute or so for the Net
> Worth linechart graphic.  So, while I think the average balance report has
> it's uses, I don't think it's a great report to use.  If it were to be
> improved, I don't know if I would relegate it to the extra menu, or merge
> it entirely with the Net Worth line charts.
>
> Thanks,Matt
>
>     On Saturday, May 18, 2019, 7:21:17 AM CDT, Geert Janssens <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  Hi,
>
> I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
> This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on
> the
> assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
> gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following
> reports:
>
> Average Balance
> Expenses vs. Day of Week
> Income vs. Day of Week
> Sample Report with Examples
>
> Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
> "Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu) and hide this menu
> by
> default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
> command line switch.
>
> If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which
> ones
> and also how these reports benefit you in practice.
>
> Regards,
>
> Geert
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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Re: [GNC] Fw: Upcoming report deprecation

GnuCash - User mailing list
Hi Chris,

On my system, I have about 150-200 Asset and Liability accounts, going back to 2010.  One currency (USD), but about 50 unique commodities.  I am testing on version 3.5 on Windows 10.  The default Net Worth Linechart took 31 seconds to load (This is the accounting period by month with a Weighted Average as the price source [When using nearest in time it's faster still, but trying to compare fairly], and all accounts).  Average balance took 14:30 to load the exact same options.

Thanks,
Matt




On Saturday, May 18, 2019, 8:15:54 PM CDT, Christopher Lam <[hidden email]> wrote:





These benchmarks are always useful. Would you mind describing characteristics of your books? e.g. number of accounts, number of currencies/commodities, approx no.transactions etc? I'm sure 3.5 average-balance should be faster than prior versions.

This may be moot if average-balance will be hidden soon, but IMHO the networth linechart taking 1 minute is still an interesting issue and I'd be keen to know why.


On Sat, 18 May 2019 at 18:33, Matthew Forbis via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sending to list from correct email address.
>   The Average Balance report would seem to have merit in my mind, such as tracking a portfolio over time, but I decided to test it to see what it's capable of.  In my testing, I found it can be rmostly eplicated by using the Net Worth linechart graph (most significant difference is you can't show only the assets line, and it's a line chart instead of a bar chart).  The Average Balance report has the downside of taking about 15-20 minutes to run and generate the initial report versus the minute or so for the Net Worth linechart graphic.  So, while I think the average balance report has it's uses, I don't think it's a great report to use.  If it were to be improved, I don't know if I would relegate it to the extra menu, or merge it entirely with the Net Worth line charts.
>
> Thanks,Matt
>
>     On Saturday, May 18, 2019, 7:21:17 AM CDT, Geert Janssens <[hidden email]> wrote: 
>
>  Hi,
>
> I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
> This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on the
> assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
> gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following reports:
>
> Average Balance
> Expenses vs. Day of Week
> Income vs. Day of Week
> Sample Report with Examples
>
> Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
> "Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu) and hide this menu by
> default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
> command line switch.
>
> If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which ones
> and also how these reports benefit you in practice.
>
> Regards,
>
> Geert
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

Geert Janssens-4
In reply to this post by Stephen C. Camidge
You can choose to install the report as a custom report as explained in our
wiki:
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Custom_Reports

The whole assumption here is these reports are rarely used and unmaintained.
We don't want to completely remove them as they can serve as examples of what
can be done with the report system, but at the same time we want to remove
clutter from the menus. So they stick around as development examples, not as
ready to use reports.

Regards,

Geert

Op zaterdag 18 mei 2019 19:18:42 CEST schreef Stephen C. Camidge:

> I am a Mac user - I like options.
>
> No, I do not use those report.
>
> Steve
>
> > Steve,
> >
> > Do you use any of these reports?
> >
> > If not, then you won't suffer from the loss. The whole point of hiding
> > these reports is that they aren't generally used.
> >
> > David
> >
> > On May 18, 2019, at 9:27 PM, "Stephen C. Camidge" <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > How will this work for those of us who do not use a command line? A new
> > preference?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
> > > This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on
> > > the assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be
> > > achieved in gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the
> > > following reports:
> > >
> > > Average Balance
> > > Expenses vs. Day of Week
> > > Income vs. Day of Week
> > > Sample Report with Examples
> > >
> > > Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
> > > "Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu) and hide this
> > > menu by default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the
> > > '--extra' command line switch.
> > >
> > > If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which
> > > ones and also how these reports benefit you in practice.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Geert
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > gnucash-user mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > > -----
> > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

Manfred Usselmann-2
In reply to this post by Geert Janssens-4
 

Hi Geert,

Am 18.05.2019 14:20, schrieb Geert Janssens:

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198 [1]
> This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on the
> assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
> gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following reports:
>
> Average Balance
> Expenses vs. Day of Week
> Income vs. Day of Week
> Sample Report with Examples
>
> Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
> "Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu)

IMO this is an excellent solution.

> and hide this menu by
> default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
> command line switch.

Not sure that I like this. This would probably be the same as if they
get deleted because nobody would know that these reports and this extra
switch exists.

I would just leave the examples menu visible.

Regards,
Manfred

> If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which ones
> and also how these reports benefit you in practice.
>
> Regards,
>
> Geert
>
> _______________________________________________
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Links:
------
[1] https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
[2] https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
[3] https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists
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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

Frank H. Ellenberger-3
Hi all,

Am Di., 21. Mai 2019 um 08:53 Uhr schrieb Manfred Usselmann <
[hidden email]>:

>
>
> Hi Geert,
>
> Am 18.05.2019 14:20, schrieb Geert Janssens:
> :
> > and hide this menu by
> > default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
> > command line switch.
>
> Not sure that I like this. This would probably be the same as if they
> get deleted because nobody would know that these reports and this extra
> switch exists.
>
> I would just leave the examples menu visible.

+1

Regards Frank
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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

GnuCash - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Manfred Usselmann-2

I am not a fan of keeping reports that *no one uses* included in the application, on the offhand chance that some new user might decide to learn scheme and the gnucash api to write a new report. As noted in the bug, this has not been a particularly common occurrence. 

Geert's solution is a good compromise, IMHO.

It would be easy enough to add a note to the Custom Reports wiki page to explain how a user would activate this. 

David
 
 
  On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 12:24, Manfred Usselmann<[hidden email]> wrote:  

Hi Geert,

Am 18.05.2019 14:20, schrieb Geert Janssens:

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198 [1]
> This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on the
> assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
> gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following reports:
>
> Average Balance
> Expenses vs. Day of Week
> Income vs. Day of Week
> Sample Report with Examples
>
> Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
> "Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu)

IMO this is an excellent solution.

> and hide this menu by
> default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
> command line switch.

Not sure that I like this. This would probably be the same as if they
get deleted because nobody would know that these reports and this extra
switch exists.

I would just leave the examples menu visible.

Regards,
Manfred

> If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which ones
> and also how these reports benefit you in practice.
>
> Regards,
>
> Geert
>
> _______________________________________________
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Links:
------
[1] https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
[2] https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
[3] https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists
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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

Christopher Lam
I'd think that it would be worthwhile to have a good set of debugged and
documented gold-standard reports.

There are far too many reports (*guilty as charged*); with many overlapping
and many obsolete ones which become hard to work on because they make
assumptions upon the data and are incredibly poorly documented -- it would
seem many prior report-writers have enthusiastically added their work, and
disappeared before explaining their work and report limitations. They also
add/duplicate a lot of infrastructure, adding (unpaid) work to maintainers.

Hence there is a general *need* for tightening infrastructure and removing
old dead code. Hence we want to figure out which reports are underused. The
candidate list seems very reasonable to make obsolete; any active users
will hopefully raise their hands and we can consider alternatives/reducing
the list.

On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 12:11, David T. via gnucash-user <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I am not a fan of keeping reports that *no one uses* included in the
> application, on the offhand chance that some new user might decide to learn
> scheme and the gnucash api to write a new report. As noted in the bug, this
> has not been a particularly common occurrence.
>
> Geert's solution is a good compromise, IMHO.
>
> It would be easy enough to add a note to the Custom Reports wiki page to
> explain how a user would activate this.
>
> David
>
>
>   On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 12:24, Manfred Usselmann<[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Geert,
>
> Am 18.05.2019 14:20, schrieb Geert Janssens:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198 [1]
> > This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on
> the
> > assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
> > gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following
> reports:
> >
> > Average Balance
> > Expenses vs. Day of Week
> > Income vs. Day of Week
> > Sample Report with Examples
> >
> > Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
> > "Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu)
>
> IMO this is an excellent solution.
>
> > and hide this menu by
> > default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
> > command line switch.
>
> Not sure that I like this. This would probably be the same as if they
> get deleted because nobody would know that these reports and this extra
> switch exists.
>
> I would just leave the examples menu visible.
>
> Regards,
> Manfred
>
> > If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which
> ones
> > and also how these reports benefit you in practice.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Geert
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user [2]
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists [3] for more information.
> > -----
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
> [2] https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> [3] https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists
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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

Mike or Penny Novack-4
In reply to this post by Geert Janssens-4
On 5/20/2019 4:22 PM, Geert Janssens wrote:

> You can choose to install the report as a custom report as explained in our
> wiki:
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Custom_Reports
>
> The whole assumption here is these reports are rarely used and unmaintained.
> We don't want to completely remove them as they can serve as examples of what
> can be done with the report system, but at the same time we want to remove
> clutter from the menus. So they stick around as development examples, not as
> ready to use reports.
>
> Regards,
>
> Geert

I would think that though rare, a couple of those would be more than
"examples", would have specific uses. Then they would be VERY useful.

An examples were asked for?

  Average Balance ---- there are loan agreements that use this rather
than daily balance. Also other agreements (like whether interest paid,
etc.). You might want to verify/check (aka "reconcile") what the bank
says the average balance was.

Expenses vs. Day of Week
Income vs. Day of Week --- these two, especially together, would be
important for a business deciding what days of the week to be open and
which to take as the day(s) closed. A restaurant business usually makes
this decision by estimate, using "cash receipts" but that could be
deceptive if the profit percentage is not a constant << maybe expenses  
were disproportionately higher on the high receipts nights >>

But like I said, RARE. It is perfectly OK, maybe a good idea, that
things needed by very few of us are not cluttering up the app for all of
us. Things that if we want/need we can get, with a little trouble. I
will  note that these tend to cluster. Taking myself as an example,
keeping books for non-profits, would use the special reports that
non-profits would want (or of new to it, example CoA for a non-profit)
--- so would all the others keeping books for non-profits -- but other
users of gnucash wouldn't use them.

Note that this is how many of the "for profit" accounting apps work.
They sell you a version specific to your type of entity or line of
business. That is why many of you complain this or that missing.

This is essentially the monolithic vs modular argument. I'll make no
bones about being firmly on the side of the latter. MUCH easier to maintain.

Michael D Novack
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Re: [GNC] Fw: Upcoming report deprecation

Christopher Lam
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
Thanks for benchmarks... IMO 1min still too long (and 14mins shocking) but
not sure how to try speed this up unless I come across sample (obfuscated)
data

On Sun, 19 May 2019 at 18:55, Matthew Forbis <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> On my system, I have about 150-200 Asset and Liability accounts, going
> back to 2010.  One currency (USD), but about 50 unique commodities.  I am
> testing on version 3.5 on Windows 10.  The default Net Worth Linechart took
> 31 seconds to load (This is the accounting period by month with a Weighted
> Average as the price source [When using nearest in time it's faster still,
> but trying to compare fairly], and all accounts).  Average balance took
> 14:30 to load the exact same options.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, May 18, 2019, 8:15:54 PM CDT, Christopher Lam <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> These benchmarks are always useful. Would you mind describing
> characteristics of your books? e.g. number of accounts, number of
> currencies/commodities, approx no.transactions etc? I'm sure 3.5
> average-balance should be faster than prior versions.
>
> This may be moot if average-balance will be hidden soon, but IMHO the
> networth linechart taking 1 minute is still an interesting issue and I'd be
> keen to know why.
>
>
> On Sat, 18 May 2019 at 18:33, Matthew Forbis via gnucash-user <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > Sending to list from correct email address.
> >   The Average Balance report would seem to have merit in my mind, such
> as tracking a portfolio over time, but I decided to test it to see what
> it's capable of.  In my testing, I found it can be rmostly eplicated by
> using the Net Worth linechart graph (most significant difference is you
> can't show only the assets line, and it's a line chart instead of a bar
> chart).  The Average Balance report has the downside of taking about 15-20
> minutes to run and generate the initial report versus the minute or so for
> the Net Worth linechart graphic.  So, while I think the average balance
> report has it's uses, I don't think it's a great report to use.  If it were
> to be improved, I don't know if I would relegate it to the extra menu, or
> merge it entirely with the Net Worth line charts.
> >
> > Thanks,Matt
> >
> >     On Saturday, May 18, 2019, 7:21:17 AM CDT, Geert Janssens <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >  Hi,
> >
> > I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773198
> > This bug proposes to remove a number of reports from the reports menu on
> the
> > assumption these reports are primarily demo's of what can be achieved in
> > gnucash, but have limited actual value. This is about the following
> reports:
> >
> > Average Balance
> > Expenses vs. Day of Week
> > Income vs. Day of Week
> > Sample Report with Examples
> >
> > Instead of completely removing them I plan to move them to a separate
> > "Examples" sub menu (the former "Sample & Custom" menu) and hide this
> menu by
> > default. It could be made visible by running gnucash with the '--extra'
> > command line switch.
> >
> > If you are actively using any of these reports please let us know which
> ones
> > and also how these reports benefit you in practice.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Geert
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

Adrien Monteleone-2
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
I’m in agreement there. If someone did take the plunge into scheme and they wanted to work on those particular reports, asking them to compile with flags isn’t a stretch for them at that point.

The less clutter and cruft the better, especially for new users.

Regards,
Adrien

> On May 21, 2019, at 7:09 AM, David T. via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I am not a fan of keeping reports that *no one uses* included in the application, on the offhand chance that some new user might decide to learn scheme and the gnucash api to write a new report. As noted in the bug, this has not been a particularly common occurrence.
>
> Geert's solution is a good compromise, IMHO.
>
> It would be easy enough to add a note to the Custom Reports wiki page to explain how a user would activate this.
>
> David

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Re: [GNC] Fw: Upcoming report deprecation

Adrien Monteleone-2
In reply to this post by Christopher Lam
Chris,

I just ran these reports with the following results:

Average Balance ≈ 5 seconds
Net Worth Line & Bar Chart ≈ 1.25 seconds each

I have 387 accounts total, with 16 (not often used) currencies, that includes my book currency of USD.

I’m not sure how to get a good count of transactions however. (first transactions are dated 12/31/15 if that helps)

I did a Simple Layout export of my asset accounts and got 6069 transactions. I could export each type, but of course there would be many duplicates.

I don’t track stocks.

Also, I’m using 3.5 on MacOS Mojave with 16GB RAM.

Regards,
Adrien

> On May 18, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Lam <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> These benchmarks are always useful. Would you mind describing
> characteristics of your books? e.g. number of accounts, number of
> currencies/commodities, approx no.transactions etc? I'm sure 3.5
> average-balance should be faster than prior versions.
>
> This may be moot if average-balance will be hidden soon, but IMHO the
> networth linechart taking 1minute is still an interesting issue and I'd be
> keen to know why.


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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

GnuCash - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Geert Janssens-4
Adrien,

I'll note that Geert's proposal only requires the user to add a switch at run time--i.e., "gnucash --extra". There is no need for the prospective report writer to recompile.I

David

On May 21, 2019, at 9:43 PM, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’m in agreement there. If someone did take the plunge into scheme and they wanted to work on those particular reports, asking them to compile with flags isn’t a stretch for them at that point.

The less clutter and cruft the better, especially for new users.

Regards,
Adrien

> On May 21, 2019, at 7:09 AM, David T. via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I am not a fan of keeping reports that *no one uses* included in the application, on the offhand chance that some new user might decide to learn scheme and the gnucash api to write a new report. As noted in the bug, this has not been a particularly common occurrence.
>
> Geert's solution is a good compromise, IMHO.
>
> It would be easy enough to add a note to the Custom Reports wiki page to explain how a user would activate this.
>
> David

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Re: [GNC] Upcoming report deprecation

GnuCash - User mailing list
Ah, missed that, thanks! So even less of a hurdle then to use/play with those reports...

Regards,
Adrien

> On May 21, 2019, at 12:49 PM, D <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Adrien,
>
> I'll note that Geert's proposal only requires the user to add a switch at run time--i.e., "gnucash --extra". There is no need for the prospective report writer to recompile.I
>
> David
>


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Re: [GNC] Fw: Upcoming report deprecation

Geert Janssens-4
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
Op zaterdag 18 mei 2019 20:31:58 CEST schreef Matthew Forbis via gnucash-user:

> Sending to list from correct email address.
>   The Average Balance report would seem to have merit in my mind, such as
> tracking a portfolio over time, but I decided to test it to see what it's
> capable of.  In my testing, I found it can be rmostly eplicated by using
> the Net Worth linechart graph (most significant difference is you can't
> show only the assets line, and it's a line chart instead of a bar chart).
> The Average Balance report has the downside of taking about 15-20 minutes
> to run and generate the initial report versus the minute or so for the Net
> Worth linechart graphic.  So, while I think the average balance report has
> it's uses, I don't think it's a great report to use.  If it were to be
> improved, I don't know if I would relegate it to the extra menu, or merge
> it entirely with the Net Worth line charts.
>
I'd be inclined to do the latter. Or extend/improve the flexibility of the Net
Worth charts such that it can report what the average balance report does.

That's one report less to maintain and less duplication.

Regards,

Geert


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