[GNC] Tracking Currency Investments

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
5 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[GNC] Tracking Currency Investments

GnuCash - User mailing list
Trying to figure out sect 12.5 of the docs:
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/currency_invest1.html

But for the life of me I cannot get things to balance correctly for the sell journal entry.  The purchase entry is quite straightforward, but for the sell entry as described by 12.5.2 I just cannot figure it out as the accounts and units (units of USD versus XXX) dont quite make sense as the capital gains seem to be denominated by the XXX currency.  As well, the "Sold Amount" value seems to be used in both an USD account and an XXX account which also doesnt make sense.

Does anyone have any good examples/screenshot of a pair of journal entries for a currency buy/sell set that includes how to handle the capital gains?
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] Tracking Currency Investments

David Cousens
I don't have any experience with share sales in foreign currencies but i have
a little with foreign currency transactions themselves.

One issue may be that the view presented in the Table is as if from the
register for the USD account. AFAIK in that register display, any amounts
from account in other currencies will normally appear as USD amounts
converted from the other currency amounts using the appropriate exchange
rate/price. There will be two prices involved, the share price at sale in
the foreign currency and the exchange rate between the foreign currency and
USD as well as the fee charged for the currency conversion.

There is one error in the documentation in the previous section on the
accounts as when tracking capital gains/losses you will need both

    Assets:Investments:Currency:Bank (USD)
    Assets:Investments:Currency:XXX (XXX)

and not just the Assets:Investments:Currency:Bank (USD) as listed in the
documentation as well as the additional accounts for the capital gains/loss
recording.  It would have been a bit more instructive to have shown in the
documentation the same transaction from one of the XXX currency account
registers (in which all the amounts will be in currency XXX and the price
for conversion to USD normally appears in the price column.

Don't know if this is enough to sort it out until someone with foreign
currency share transaction experience can reply.

David Cousens



-----
David Cousens
--
Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
David Cousens
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] "Stock" Liabilities do not show up under liabilities in Balance Sheet report

GnuCash - User mailing list
 
Hi yes exactly - it its the other case you describe for "unpaid" issues. Under report options I select all accounts, and those liabilities do show up - but they show up in the assets section at the top of the report (where the calculation correctly subtracts them from my assets). All that is at the bottom of my balance sheet report is A/P and Credit Card accounts.

I think it has something to do with how I created a "stock" account under the top-level Liabilites account, and then how I must record transactions - for example if I am to show receipt of 100 units, I will enter "-100" under the "Tot Shares" column for the liability account split, and then a "+100" under the "Tot Shares" for the asset account side split.

But then the liability doesnt show up under liabilities - it shows up in the top section "Assets" (as a negative value). So its not really off at all as far as the numbers/maths go, its just weird that its showing up top.



On Sunday Jan 26, 2020; 5:47pm CST, David Cousens <[hidden email]> wrote:


The situation you are describing is not clear. By stock do you mean shares
which are issued to you but which you have not purchased, perhaps as part of
a stock option?

It is not clear why you would record this with splits to both Assets and
Lliabilities. You mention "their liability account". Their liability account
should not appear in your books , only liabilities, that is obligations you
have to pay someone, that you have incurred. One would normally record any
acquistion of stock as an asset against equity, either the temporary income
and expense accounts of equity or a permanent equity account or as a
transfer from another asset account. You would normally only incur a
liability if you borrowed the money to purchase the stock for example, but
you borrow it not the asset you purchase with it.

The other case could be if the stock was "unpaid" shares for example where
you receive an issue, but may be called upon to pay for them at a future
date. Then it may be appropriate to record that future possible demand for
payment as a liability. In this case the asset value is neutral in your
accounts (apart from capital gains and dividends) and it should be included
in both the totals for assets and liabilities. You may need to check which
accounts are selected for inclusion in the Balance sheet report and which
are selected to be displayed explicitly in the report in the Edit->Report
Options.

You may have to describe the situation in a bit more detail but this may
really an accounting question and perhaps you should seek professional
advice in your jurisdiction on how to record the particular situation.

David Cousens



-----
David Cousens
--
Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
 
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] "Stock" Liabilities do not show up under liabilities in Balance Sheet report

David Cousens
Hi Bo,

I think I understand what has happened. Accounts of type stock should have an Asset account as their parent account not
a Liability account. When you are issued stock as unpaid the Liability account will simply be an account of type
Liability not of type Stock. A possible account tree to cover this might look like (":" denoting a subaccount).

Assets:Investments:Brokerage:ABCCorp

Liabilities:Investments:Unpaid Stock:ABCCorp

Here Assets, Assets:Investments and Assets Investments:Brokerage will be accounts of type Asset and ABCcorp is of type
Stock  and Liabilities, Liabilities:Investments,  Liabilities:Investments:Unpaid Stock and
Liabilities:Investments:Unpaid Stock:ABCCorp are all accounts of type Liability.

The type and parent are set in the Edit Account dialog. You should be able to change them in the dialog

A typical transaction on issues of 100 shares the stock with a face value of $10 might look something like:
                                      no    Price   Debit    Credit
Assets:Investments:Brokerage:ABCCorp  100   $10     $1000
Liabilities:Investments:Unpaid Stock:ABCCorp                 $1000

With any luck when you have them setup like this they should then appear correctly in the Balance Sheet. Give it a try
and let us know how you go.

David


On Mon, 2020-01-27 at 02:17 +0000, Bo Byrd via gnucash-user wrote:

>  
> Hi yes exactly - it its the other case you describe for "unpaid" issues. Under report options I select all accounts,
> and those liabilities do show up - but they show up in the assets section at the top of the report (where the
> calculation correctly subtracts them from my assets). All that is at the bottom of my balance sheet report is A/P and
> Credit Card accounts.
>
> I think it has something to do with how I created a "stock" account under the top-level Liabilites account, and then
> how I must record transactions - for example if I am to show receipt of 100 units, I will enter "-100" under the "Tot
> Shares" column for the liability account split, and then a "+100" under the "Tot Shares" for the asset account side
> split.
>
> But then the liability doesnt show up under liabilities - it shows up in the top section "Assets" (as a negative
> value). So its not really off at all as far as the numbers/maths go, its just weird that its showing up top.
>
>
>
> On Sunday Jan 26, 2020; 5:47pm CST, David Cousens <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> The situation you are describing is not clear. By stock do you mean shares
> which are issued to you but which you have not purchased, perhaps as part of
> a stock option?
>
> It is not clear why you would record this with splits to both Assets and
> Lliabilities. You mention "their liability account". Their liability account
> should not appear in your books , only liabilities, that is obligations you
> have to pay someone, that you have incurred. One would normally record any
> acquistion of stock as an asset against equity, either the temporary income
> and expense accounts of equity or a permanent equity account or as a
> transfer from another asset account. You would normally only incur a
> liability if you borrowed the money to purchase the stock for example, but
> you borrow it not the asset you purchase with it.
>
> The other case could be if the stock was "unpaid" shares for example where
> you receive an issue, but may be called upon to pay for them at a future
> date. Then it may be appropriate to record that future possible demand for
> payment as a liability. In this case the asset value is neutral in your
> accounts (apart from capital gains and dividends) and it should be included
> in both the totals for assets and liabilities. You may need to check which
> accounts are selected for inclusion in the Balance sheet report and which
> are selected to be displayed explicitly in the report in the Edit->Report
> Options.
>
> You may have to describe the situation in a bit more detail but this may
> really an accounting question and perhaps you should seek professional
> advice in your jurisdiction on how to record the particular situation.
>
> David Cousens
>
>
>
> -----
> David Cousens
--
Dr David R Cousens
B.Sc, M.Prof. Acc., Ph.D., G.C.Ed

_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
David Cousens
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] "Stock" Liabilities do not show up under liabilities in Balance Sheet report

GnuCash - User mailing list
 Thanks - I tried that but then can only enter transactions where the units are USD, and I really must track them in my books as units of the stock. If I have to deal with it being show up in "Assets" section of the balance sheet as a negative asset instead of under "liabilities" as a positive liability, then if thats the only way I can track them internally as stock, then I'll just take it. Thanks very much for your replies here.




On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 11:32:47 PM CST, David Cousens <[hidden email]> wrote:


Hi Bo,

I think I understand what has happened. Accounts of type stock should have an Asset account as their parent account not
a Liability account. When you are issued stock as unpaid the Liability account will simply be an account of type
Liability not of type Stock. A possible account tree to cover this might look like (":" denoting a subaccount).

Assets:Investments:Brokerage:ABCCorp

Liabilities:Investments:Unpaid Stock:ABCCorp

Here Assets, Assets:Investments and Assets Investments:Brokerage will be accounts of type Asset and ABCcorp is of type
Stock and Liabilities, Liabilities:Investments, Liabilities:Investments:Unpaid Stock and
Liabilities:Investments:Unpaid Stock:ABCCorp are all accounts of type Liability.

The type and parent are set in the Edit Account dialog. You should be able to change them in the dialog

A typical transaction on issues of 100 shares the stock with a face value of $10 might look something like:
 no Price Debit Credit
Assets:Investments:Brokerage:ABCCorp 100 $10 $1000
Liabilities:Investments:Unpaid Stock:ABCCorp $1000

With any luck when you have them setup like this they should then appear correctly in the Balance Sheet. Give it a try
and let us know how you go.

David  
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.