[GNC] Summarizing cash flow report w.r.t. entries and exits (discounts)

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[GNC] Summarizing cash flow report w.r.t. entries and exits (discounts)

brainwash
This problem might be two-folded.

I have several categories of payments or receivables that have both positive
and negative entries. For example, I might receive payment with VAT included
but the respective amount is later paid out after a few months. This shows
an entry under "comes from"(+) for the total billed and an entry under "goes
to"(-) for the VAT. Since that amount is never mine to begin with, I would
like it to just be subtracted from the incoming ("from") section.

The second issue is receiving discounts (on health insurance) or making
corrections (on income). The effect of those special situations is that
"Expenses" show up under the "from" section and "Income" shows up under the
"to" section. I would like Expenses to always show up in the section below
and Income above.

Example how it looks now:
---
Money into selected accounts comes from
Income:Invoices 100
Expenses:Insurance:Health Insurance 10
Money in: 110
---
Money out of selected accounts goes to
Expenses:Taxes:VAT 19
Expenses:Insurance:Health Insurance 100
Money out: 119

An idea about how it would be nice to look:
---
Money into selected accounts comes from
Income:Invoices 100
Expenses:Taxes:VAT (19)
Money in: 81
---
Money out of selected accounts goes to
Expenses:Insurance:Health Insurance (10)
Expenses:Insurance:Health Insurance 100
Money out: 90

Maybe it's the wrong report to use for this or the wrong category (account)
assignment. Not sure what a good solution to this would be.



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Re: [GNC] Summarizing cash flow report w.r.t. entries and exits (discounts)

Adrien Monteleone-2
This doesn’t answer the base issue of where the accounts are placed in the report, but shouldn’t that VAT account be a liability instead of expense? Is this VAT that you are charging customers and passing along to the government? Or is this VAT that you are paying on purchases?

Regards,
Adrien

> On Aug 8, 2018, at 6:31 PM, brainwash <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This problem might be two-folded.
>
> I have several categories of payments or receivables that have both positive
> and negative entries. For example, I might receive payment with VAT included
> but the respective amount is later paid out after a few months. This shows
> an entry under "comes from"(+) for the total billed and an entry under "goes
> to"(-) for the VAT. Since that amount is never mine to begin with, I would
> like it to just be subtracted from the incoming ("from") section.
>
> The second issue is receiving discounts (on health insurance) or making
> corrections (on income). The effect of those special situations is that
> "Expenses" show up under the "from" section and "Income" shows up under the
> "to" section. I would like Expenses to always show up in the section below
> and Income above.
>
> Example how it looks now:
> ---
> Money into selected accounts comes from
> Income:Invoices 100
> Expenses:Insurance:Health Insurance 10
> Money in: 110
> ---
> Money out of selected accounts goes to
> Expenses:Taxes:VAT 19
> Expenses:Insurance:Health Insurance 100
> Money out: 119
>
> An idea about how it would be nice to look:
> ---
> Money into selected accounts comes from
> Income:Invoices 100
> Expenses:Taxes:VAT (19)
> Money in: 81
> ---
> Money out of selected accounts goes to
> Expenses:Insurance:Health Insurance (10)
> Expenses:Insurance:Health Insurance 100
> Money out: 90
>
> Maybe it's the wrong report to use for this or the wrong category (account)
> assignment. Not sure what a good solution to this would be.
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [GNC] Summarizing cash flow report w.r.t. entries and exits (discounts)

brainwash
I don't know how it should be set up as I'm using this only for personal
bookkeeping.
To answer the question: the VAT is a liability(?) in that I receive it from
the customers and have to give it back to the state.
There's is also some VAT on expenses but it would be too tedious too track
that for each small purchase.

With regard to that, the VAT is self-reported and predicted, so I sometimes
end up receiving discounts (kickbacks?) from the state. This shows up as
income under the "Cash flow", but I guess in that case it makes sense.

Regards



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Re: [GNC] Summarizing cash flow report w.r.t. entries and exits (discounts)

Adrien Monteleone-2
By all means, talk to a local CPA, but usually a pass through is treated as a liability.

So you’d have this account:

Liabilities:VAT payable

The invoice transaction would look like this:

Dr. Cash/Checking/etc.
Cr. Income
Cr. Liabilities:VAT payable

The debit would be for the full amount received.

The credit to income is just for your services/products.

The VAT is strictly a liability. Those funds don’t belong to you and you didn’t earn them so they are not income.

If you pay estimated VAT in advance and then get refunds, that should simply reduce your actual liability. So when paying the estimated amount, you’d enter a debit to that Liability account, and then each invoice will reduce that pre-payment as they are posted. If you receive a refund for excess pre-payment you’d enter something like this:

Dr. Cash/Checking/etc.
Cr. Liabilities:VAT payable

Income shouldn’t enter the picture here. Had you estimated exactly, there would have been no refund.

If you receive ‘vendor compensation’ for collecting and remitting the tax for the state, that is probably income, but get a professional opinion. (Usually a small percentage of the tax due and subtracted when filing.) It’s usually not actually paid-back to you, you just get to keep it, though your jurisdiction may do otherwise.

Regards,
Adrien


> On Aug 9, 2018, at 8:54 AM, brainwash <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I don't know how it should be set up as I'm using this only for personal
> bookkeeping.
> To answer the question: the VAT is a liability(?) in that I receive it from
> the customers and have to give it back to the state.
> There's is also some VAT on expenses but it would be too tedious too track
> that for each small purchase.
>
> With regard to that, the VAT is self-reported and predicted, so I sometimes
> end up receiving discounts (kickbacks?) from the state. This shows up as
> income under the "Cash flow", but I guess in that case it makes sense.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [GNC] Summarizing cash flow report w.r.t. entries and exits (discounts)

Christian Kluge
Hi,

under certain circumstances VAT can be treated as expense/income,
e. g. in Germany when one’s only required to do cash based accounting.

In that case payable output tax and refunds would be treated as income
and input tax and vat payments are treated as expense.

Kind regards

Christian Kluge

Am 09.08.2018 um 17:57 schrieb Adrien Monteleone:

> By all means, talk to a local CPA, but usually a pass through is treated as a liability.
>
> So you’d have this account:
>
> Liabilities:VAT payable
>
> The invoice transaction would look like this:
>
> Dr. Cash/Checking/etc.
> Cr. Income
> Cr. Liabilities:VAT payable
>
> The debit would be for the full amount received.
>
> The credit to income is just for your services/products.
>
> The VAT is strictly a liability. Those funds don’t belong to you and you didn’t earn them so they are not income.
>
> If you pay estimated VAT in advance and then get refunds, that should simply reduce your actual liability. So when paying the estimated amount, you’d enter a debit to that Liability account, and then each invoice will reduce that pre-payment as they are posted. If you receive a refund for excess pre-payment you’d enter something like this:
>
> Dr. Cash/Checking/etc.
> Cr. Liabilities:VAT payable
>
> Income shouldn’t enter the picture here. Had you estimated exactly, there would have been no refund.
>
> If you receive ‘vendor compensation’ for collecting and remitting the tax for the state, that is probably income, but get a professional opinion. (Usually a small percentage of the tax due and subtracted when filing.) It’s usually not actually paid-back to you, you just get to keep it, though your jurisdiction may do otherwise.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
>
>> On Aug 9, 2018, at 8:54 AM, brainwash <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know how it should be set up as I'm using this only for personal
>> bookkeeping.
>> To answer the question: the VAT is a liability(?) in that I receive it from
>> the customers and have to give it back to the state.
>> There's is also some VAT on expenses but it would be too tedious too track
>> that for each small purchase.
>>
>> With regard to that, the VAT is self-reported and predicted, so I sometimes
>> end up receiving discounts (kickbacks?) from the state. This shows up as
>> income under the "Cash flow", but I guess in that case it makes sense.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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>
>
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Re: [GNC] Summarizing cash flow report w.r.t. entries and exits (discounts)

Adrien Monteleone-2
Which is why everyone should speak to a local CPA for official guidance.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Aug 9, 2018, at 2:25 PM, Christian Kluge <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> under certain circumstances VAT can be treated as expense/income,
> e. g. in Germany when one’s only required to do cash based accounting.
>
> In that case payable output tax and refunds would be treated as income
> and input tax and vat payments are treated as expense.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Christian Kluge
>
> Am 09.08.2018 um 17:57 schrieb Adrien Monteleone:
>> By all means, talk to a local CPA, but usually a pass through is treated as a liability.
>>
>> So you’d have this account:
>>
>> Liabilities:VAT payable
>>
>> The invoice transaction would look like this:
>>
>> Dr. Cash/Checking/etc.
>> Cr. Income
>> Cr. Liabilities:VAT payable
>>
>> The debit would be for the full amount received.
>>
>> The credit to income is just for your services/products.
>>
>> The VAT is strictly a liability. Those funds don’t belong to you and you didn’t earn them so they are not income.
>>
>> If you pay estimated VAT in advance and then get refunds, that should simply reduce your actual liability. So when paying the estimated amount, you’d enter a debit to that Liability account, and then each invoice will reduce that pre-payment as they are posted. If you receive a refund for excess pre-payment you’d enter something like this:
>>
>> Dr. Cash/Checking/etc.
>> Cr. Liabilities:VAT payable
>>
>> Income shouldn’t enter the picture here. Had you estimated exactly, there would have been no refund.
>>
>> If you receive ‘vendor compensation’ for collecting and remitting the tax for the state, that is probably income, but get a professional opinion. (Usually a small percentage of the tax due and subtracted when filing.) It’s usually not actually paid-back to you, you just get to keep it, though your jurisdiction may do otherwise.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 9, 2018, at 8:54 AM, brainwash <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't know how it should be set up as I'm using this only for personal
>>> bookkeeping.
>>> To answer the question: the VAT is a liability(?) in that I receive it from
>>> the customers and have to give it back to the state.
>>> There's is also some VAT on expenses but it would be too tedious too track
>>> that for each small purchase.
>>>
>>> With regard to that, the VAT is self-reported and predicted, so I sometimes
>>> end up receiving discounts (kickbacks?) from the state. This shows up as
>>> income under the "Cash flow", but I guess in that case it makes sense.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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