[GNC] Location of GnuCash data files

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[GNC] Location of GnuCash data files

Stan Brown
Under "Uddating advice", I believe Finbar Mahon wrote:

> On reading it I see that what is missing is how to find where the
> gnucash file is saved.  The problem is that where it is was specified
> by yourself when you first saved your accounts file.  Just as it is if
> you save a word processor document for example, so the wiki assumes
> you remember where that is.

True enough, and a couple of people have suggested how to find a file.

But word processors typically DON'T put dozens of log files in the same directory or folder as the actual document. Because Gnucash does, when someone naively saves a Gnucash data file to her desktop, it's almost immediately cluttered with log files. The same was true when I naively saved my first GnuCash file to the same folder as my financial spreadsheets -- relatively quickly they were buried under a blizzard of log files. (Granted, I'm exaggerating a bit, for effect.)

I understand the usefulness of the log files, but why aren't they written to the temp folder? Or better yet, why aren't they written to a user-specified location, with the temp folder as default?

--
Stan Brown
[hidden email]
https://BrownMath.com
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
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Re: [GNC] Location of GnuCash data files

Stephen M. Butler
On 12/31/18 9:29 AM, Stan Brown wrote:

> Under "Uddating advice", I believe Finbar Mahon wrote:
>
>> On reading it I see that what is missing is how to find where the
>> gnucash file is saved.  The problem is that where it is was specified
>> by yourself when you first saved your accounts file.  Just as it is if
>> you save a word processor document for example, so the wiki assumes
>> you remember where that is.
> True enough, and a couple of people have suggested how to find a file.
>
> But word processors typically DON'T put dozens of log files in the same directory or folder as the actual document. Because Gnucash does, when someone naively saves a Gnucash data file to her desktop, it's almost immediately cluttered with log files. The same was true when I naively saved my first GnuCash file to the same folder as my financial spreadsheets -- relatively quickly they were buried under a blizzard of log files. (Granted, I'm exaggerating a bit, for effect.)
>
> I understand the usefulness of the log files, but why aren't they written to the temp folder? Or better yet, why aren't they written to a user-specified location, with the temp folder as default?
>
This sounds like an idea that needs to be filed as an enhancement
request.  I'd suggest an alternative might be to create two sub-folders
in the folder where the data file is stored:

 1. ./GnuCash-Backups
 2. ./GnuCash-Logs

That would keep them from cluttering up the main folder but be readily
at hand and easily identifiable.  Of course, I've used *Nix style paths
but the idea should port to Windows (I don't know Mac).

--Steve

--
Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
[hidden email]
[hidden email]
253-350-0166
-------------------------------------------
GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8


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Re: [GNC] Location of GnuCash data files

GnuCash - User mailing list
Been done.  
https://gnucash.uservoice.com/forums/101223-feature-request/suggestions/1470507-configuration-option-for-backup-location

 
 
  On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 23:18, Stephen M. Butler<[hidden email]> wrote:   On 12/31/18 9:29 AM, Stan Brown wrote:

> Under "Uddating advice", I believe Finbar Mahon wrote:
>
>> On reading it I see that what is missing is how to find where the
>> gnucash file is saved.  The problem is that where it is was specified
>> by yourself when you first saved your accounts file.  Just as it is if
>> you save a word processor document for example, so the wiki assumes
>> you remember where that is.
> True enough, and a couple of people have suggested how to find a file.
>
> But word processors typically DON'T put dozens of log files in the same directory or folder as the actual document. Because Gnucash does, when someone naively saves a Gnucash data file to her desktop, it's almost immediately cluttered with log files. The same was true when I naively saved my first GnuCash file to the same folder as my financial spreadsheets -- relatively quickly they were buried under a blizzard of log files. (Granted, I'm exaggerating a bit, for effect.)
>
> I understand the usefulness of the log files, but why aren't they written to the temp folder? Or better yet, why aren't they written to a user-specified location, with the temp folder as default?
>
This sounds like an idea that needs to be filed as an enhancement
request.  I'd suggest an alternative might be to create two sub-folders
in the folder where the data file is stored:

 1. ./GnuCash-Backups
 2. ./GnuCash-Logs

That would keep them from cluttering up the main folder but be readily
at hand and easily identifiable.  Of course, I've used *Nix style paths
but the idea should port to Windows (I don't know Mac).

--Steve

--
Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
[hidden email]
[hidden email]
253-350-0166
-------------------------------------------
GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8
 

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Re: [GNC] Location of GnuCash data files

Adrien Monteleone-2
It should probably be filed in Bugzilla, but I think it might already be there.

I seem to recall asking this question myself some months ago after a thread about user confusion over these files. I unfortunately can’t find the thread and don’t remember the exact final point, but I do remember one of the devs stated a good reason for why the present situation is what it is, darned if I can remember it though. Maybe one of them will chime in.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Dec 31, 2018, at 12:09 PM, David T. via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Been done.  
> https://gnucash.uservoice.com/forums/101223-feature-request/suggestions/1470507-configuration-option-for-backup-location
>
>
>
>  On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 23:18, Stephen M. Butler<[hidden email]> wrote:   On 12/31/18 9:29 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
>> Under "Uddating advice", I believe Finbar Mahon wrote:
>>
>>> On reading it I see that what is missing is how to find where the
>>> gnucash file is saved.  The problem is that where it is was specified
>>> by yourself when you first saved your accounts file.  Just as it is if
>>> you save a word processor document for example, so the wiki assumes
>>> you remember where that is.
>> True enough, and a couple of people have suggested how to find a file.
>>
>> But word processors typically DON'T put dozens of log files in the same directory or folder as the actual document. Because Gnucash does, when someone naively saves a Gnucash data file to her desktop, it's almost immediately cluttered with log files. The same was true when I naively saved my first GnuCash file to the same folder as my financial spreadsheets -- relatively quickly they were buried under a blizzard of log files. (Granted, I'm exaggerating a bit, for effect.)
>>
>> I understand the usefulness of the log files, but why aren't they written to the temp folder? Or better yet, why aren't they written to a user-specified location, with the temp folder as default?
>>
> This sounds like an idea that needs to be filed as an enhancement
> request.  I'd suggest an alternative might be to create two sub-folders
> in the folder where the data file is stored:
>
> 1. ./GnuCash-Backups
> 2. ./GnuCash-Logs
>
> That would keep them from cluttering up the main folder but be readily
> at hand and easily identifiable.  Of course, I've used *Nix style paths
> but the idea should port to Windows (I don't know Mac).
>
> --Steve
>
> --
> Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
> [hidden email]
> [hidden email]
> 253-350-0166
> -------------------------------------------
> GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8
>
> <Untitled.txt>_______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] Location of GnuCash data files

David Carlson-4
The thread GNCupdating advice seems to have answers that could apply to
this thread.

Adding to both: In the release 2.6.xx family, a simple method to find the
last used data file is to start the File > Save as process and see where
GnuCash wants to put the new file.  Then cancel before actually saving.

David C

On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:42 PM Adrien Monteleone <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> It should probably be filed in Bugzilla, but I think it might already be
> there.
>
> I seem to recall asking this question myself some months ago after a
> thread about user confusion over these files. I unfortunately can’t find
> the thread and don’t remember the exact final point, but I do remember one
> of the devs stated a good reason for why the present situation is what it
> is, darned if I can remember it though. Maybe one of them will chime in.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> > On Dec 31, 2018, at 12:09 PM, David T. via gnucash-user <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Been done.
> >
> https://gnucash.uservoice.com/forums/101223-feature-request/suggestions/1470507-configuration-option-for-backup-location
> >
> >
> >
> >  On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 23:18, Stephen M. Butler<[hidden email]>
> wrote:   On 12/31/18 9:29 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
> >> Under "Uddating advice", I believe Finbar Mahon wrote:
> >>
> >>> On reading it I see that what is missing is how to find where the
> >>> gnucash file is saved.  The problem is that where it is was specified
> >>> by yourself when you first saved your accounts file.  Just as it is if
> >>> you save a word processor document for example, so the wiki assumes
> >>> you remember where that is.
> >> True enough, and a couple of people have suggested how to find a file.
> >>
> >> But word processors typically DON'T put dozens of log files in the same
> directory or folder as the actual document. Because Gnucash does, when
> someone naively saves a Gnucash data file to her desktop, it's almost
> immediately cluttered with log files. The same was true when I naively
> saved my first GnuCash file to the same folder as my financial spreadsheets
> -- relatively quickly they were buried under a blizzard of log files.
> (Granted, I'm exaggerating a bit, for effect.)
> >>
> >> I understand the usefulness of the log files, but why aren't they
> written to the temp folder? Or better yet, why aren't they written to a
> user-specified location, with the temp folder as default?
> >>
> > This sounds like an idea that needs to be filed as an enhancement
> > request.  I'd suggest an alternative might be to create two sub-folders
> > in the folder where the data file is stored:
> >
> > 1. ./GnuCash-Backups
> > 2. ./GnuCash-Logs
> >
> > That would keep them from cluttering up the main folder but be readily
> > at hand and easily identifiable.  Of course, I've used *Nix style paths
> > but the idea should port to Windows (I don't know Mac).
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> > --
> > Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
> > [hidden email]
> > [hidden email]
> > 253-350-0166
> > -------------------------------------------
> > GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8
> >
> > <Untitled.txt>_______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > -----
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [GNC] Location of GnuCash data files

Adrien Monteleone-2
That’s an easy go-to method for nearly any application. I teach it to my family regularly. It is very useful when they aren’t paying attention to where they just saved something moments ago as most apps default to a standard preference location (like Downloads or Documents) or the last-used location.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Dec 31, 2018, at 2:20 PM, David Carlson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The thread GNCupdating advice seems to have answers that could apply to this thread.
>
> Adding to both: In the release 2.6.xx family, a simple method to find the last used data file is to start the File > Save as process and see where GnuCash wants to put the new file.  Then cancel before actually saving.
>
> David C
>
> On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:42 PM Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It should probably be filed in Bugzilla, but I think it might already be there.
>
> I seem to recall asking this question myself some months ago after a thread about user confusion over these files. I unfortunately can’t find the thread and don’t remember the exact final point, but I do remember one of the devs stated a good reason for why the present situation is what it is, darned if I can remember it though. Maybe one of them will chime in.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> > On Dec 31, 2018, at 12:09 PM, David T. via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Been done.  
> > https://gnucash.uservoice.com/forums/101223-feature-request/suggestions/1470507-configuration-option-for-backup-location
> >
> >
> >
> >  On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 23:18, Stephen M. Butler<[hidden email]> wrote:   On 12/31/18 9:29 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
> >> Under "Uddating advice", I believe Finbar Mahon wrote:
> >>
> >>> On reading it I see that what is missing is how to find where the
> >>> gnucash file is saved.  The problem is that where it is was specified
> >>> by yourself when you first saved your accounts file.  Just as it is if
> >>> you save a word processor document for example, so the wiki assumes
> >>> you remember where that is.
> >> True enough, and a couple of people have suggested how to find a file.
> >>
> >> But word processors typically DON'T put dozens of log files in the same directory or folder as the actual document. Because Gnucash does, when someone naively saves a Gnucash data file to her desktop, it's almost immediately cluttered with log files. The same was true when I naively saved my first GnuCash file to the same folder as my financial spreadsheets -- relatively quickly they were buried under a blizzard of log files. (Granted, I'm exaggerating a bit, for effect.)
> >>
> >> I understand the usefulness of the log files, but why aren't they written to the temp folder? Or better yet, why aren't they written to a user-specified location, with the temp folder as default?
> >>
> > This sounds like an idea that needs to be filed as an enhancement
> > request.  I'd suggest an alternative might be to create two sub-folders
> > in the folder where the data file is stored:
> >
> > 1. ./GnuCash-Backups
> > 2. ./GnuCash-Logs
> >
> > That would keep them from cluttering up the main folder but be readily
> > at hand and easily identifiable.  Of course, I've used *Nix style paths
> > but the idea should port to Windows (I don't know Mac).
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> > --
> > Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
> > [hidden email]
> > [hidden email]
> > 253-350-0166
> > -------------------------------------------
> > GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8
> >
> > <Untitled.txt>_______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > -----
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> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Location of GnuCash data files

nvsoar
FWIW - for Windows systems there is light weight, free, fast file and
folder locator called 'Everything'; available at void tools.com. (Quite
impressive with respect to windows search.)
nvsoar

On 12/31/18 13:26, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

> That’s an easy go-to method for nearly any application. I teach it to my family regularly. It is very useful when they aren’t paying attention to where they just saved something moments ago as most apps default to a standard preference location (like Downloads or Documents) or the last-used location.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
>> On Dec 31, 2018, at 2:20 PM, David Carlson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The thread GNCupdating advice seems to have answers that could apply to this thread.
>>
>> Adding to both: In the release 2.6.xx family, a simple method to find the last used data file is to start the File > Save as process and see where GnuCash wants to put the new file.  Then cancel before actually saving.
>>
>> David C
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:42 PM Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> It should probably be filed in Bugzilla, but I think it might already be there.
>>
>> I seem to recall asking this question myself some months ago after a thread about user confusion over these files. I unfortunately can’t find the thread and don’t remember the exact final point, but I do remember one of the devs stated a good reason for why the present situation is what it is, darned if I can remember it though. Maybe one of them will chime in.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>>
>>> On Dec 31, 2018, at 12:09 PM, David T. via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Been done.
>>> https://gnucash.uservoice.com/forums/101223-feature-request/suggestions/1470507-configuration-option-for-backup-location
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 23:18, Stephen M. Butler<[hidden email]> wrote:   On 12/31/18 9:29 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
>>>> Under "Uddating advice", I believe Finbar Mahon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On reading it I see that what is missing is how to find where the
>>>>> gnucash file is saved.  The problem is that where it is was specified
>>>>> by yourself when you first saved your accounts file.  Just as it is if
>>>>> you save a word processor document for example, so the wiki assumes
>>>>> you remember where that is.
>>>> True enough, and a couple of people have suggested how to find a file.
>>>>
>>>> But word processors typically DON'T put dozens of log files in the same directory or folder as the actual document. Because Gnucash does, when someone naively saves a Gnucash data file to her desktop, it's almost immediately cluttered with log files. The same was true when I naively saved my first GnuCash file to the same folder as my financial spreadsheets -- relatively quickly they were buried under a blizzard of log files. (Granted, I'm exaggerating a bit, for effect.)
>>>>
>>>> I understand the usefulness of the log files, but why aren't they written to the temp folder? Or better yet, why aren't they written to a user-specified location, with the temp folder as default?
>>>>
>>> This sounds like an idea that needs to be filed as an enhancement
>>> request.  I'd suggest an alternative might be to create two sub-folders
>>> in the folder where the data file is stored:
>>>
>>> 1. ./GnuCash-Backups
>>> 2. ./GnuCash-Logs
>>>
>>> That would keep them from cluttering up the main folder but be readily
>>> at hand and easily identifiable.  Of course, I've used *Nix style paths
>>> but the idea should port to Windows (I don't know Mac).
>>>
>>> --Steve
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
>>> [hidden email]
>>> [hidden email]
>>> 253-350-0166
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>> GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8
>>>
>>> <Untitled.txt>_______________________________________________
>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>>> -----
>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
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Re: [GNC] Location of GnuCash data files

Finbar Mahon
Of course! I found everything since Feb 2018! Many thanks and a Happy
New Year!

Off to load 3.3, I hope that command works there too.

Barry

On Dec 31, 2018, at 2:20 PM, David Carlson <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>>>
>>> The thread GNCupdating advice seems to have answers that could apply
>>> to this thread.
>>>
>>> Adding to both: In the release 2.6.xx family, a simple method to
>>> find the last used data file is to start the File > Save as process
>>> and see where GnuCash wants to put the new file. Then cancel before
>>> actually saving.
>>>
>>> David C
>>>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [GNC] Location of GnuCash data files

Geert Janssens-4
In reply to this post by Adrien Monteleone-2
On Monday, December 31, 2018 8:40:40 PM CET Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> It should probably be filed in Bugzilla, but I think it might already be
> there.
>

No for enhancement requests uservoice is fine. We haven't stated this
explicitly I think, but I find it easier if bugzilla is really for tracking
bugs.

> I seem to recall asking this question myself some months ago after a thread
> about user confusion over these files. I unfortunately can’t find the
> thread and don’t remember the exact final point, but I do remember one of
> the devs stated a good reason for why the present situation is what it is,
> darned if I can remember it though. Maybe one of them will chime in.
>

I don't remember exactly either. I believe at the last discussion we were
debating removing the logging functionality for sql backends and I almost did.

There are several issues with the transaction log and it only provides a false
sense of security. For example it only logs transaction changes, not account
changes or any other modification made to the data. So as a recovery tool it's
only marginally useful. Worse, it will restore bad transactions if business
features are used. And probably there are several other issues with it.

Given these issues I think I should have proceeded with removing the logging
for the sql backend after all. As a whole I think this logging is in dire need
for a redesign. Given the future ideas the dev team has with the xml backend
(on load convert it internally into an sqlite db as long as it's open), it's
probably best to hold of on that one though. I think a lower level
implementation (on the sql transaction level) has a better future.

But that's only tangential to the proposal of moving the backup and log files
someplace else.

That is also not a new idea. I have also suggested this in the past.

> >> I understand the usefulness of the log files, but why aren't they written
> >> to the temp folder? Or better yet, why aren't they written to a
> >> user-specified location, with the temp folder as default?>
> > This sounds like an idea that needs to be filed as an enhancement
> > request.  I'd suggest an alternative might be to create two sub-folders
> > in the folder where the data file is stored:
> >
> > 1. ./GnuCash-Backups
> > 2. ./GnuCash-Logs
> >

Using subdirectories is one strategy, though I would not suggest the split
above.
 I'd go for one subdirectory per data file (people sometimes forget you can
have more than one book). If your book is called MyBook.gnucash, the related
subdirectory could for example be called MyBook.history. And then we store all
related files in there. We could also think a bit broader and extend the
usefulness of this directory to also hold other associated files. In that case
a name like MyBook.extra could make more sense. In addition as logging also
happens for the sql a

I also see another approach: gnucash already keeps metadata in GNC_DATA_HOME.
We could choose to store logfiles and backups in there as well. They are used
relatively infrequently so there's no need to have them clutter the directory
of the main data file.

Regards,

Geert


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