[GNC] Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
61 messages Options
1234
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

Christopher Lam
I'll throw some more confusion I'm afraid. I'd think a Split is somewhat
unique to GnuCash, for better or for worse. I don't think there's an
equivalent word in general usage. If we define Split as a "that which links
Transactions to Accounts" then there's no confusion here.

Technically a Transaction can have 1 Split - in an account register, input
a date, description/memo/notes, and leave the rest blank -- presto, a
single-split transaction with no account, no amount or amount = 0, and the
engine will accept it. This single-split transaction will appear in the
Transaction Report, and causes no harm. You can use this for annotating
accounts "01/01/2018 - new year - new tenant moves in - monthly $500 rent
expected". Does any other bookkeeping software allow this?

A 2-Split transaction is the most common transfer involving 2 separate
accounts, and is displayed as a shortcut for newbies.

A 3-Split (or more links 3 accounts or more together), useful for complex
transfers involving taxes withheld, or mortgage/capital/interest
repayments, or complex payroll entries.

I don't think there's a compelling argument to rename 20 years of history...

Thanks for your support, Alan,

>
> and also for the fact that your response demonstrates the
> incomprehensibility of the terminology!
>
> QED
>
> You say “A simple transaction consists of just one split…” This is not the
> case - a simple transaction involves two splits. Similarly, a compound
> transaction involves 3 or more splits.
>
> The situation isn’t helped by the use of the term “Split Transaction”
> which appears in a register where there is a transaction with more than 2
> splits. Does this mean (using Split as a noun) that the transaction is made
> up from splits, or (using it as a past participle) that the transaction is
> in a state of having been split. Replacing this with “Compound Transaction”
> would make it clear that there is more to see while not having any
> fundamental affect on underlying code or data.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

foxylady337
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
> On 22 Mar 2019, at 19:33, aeg via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:


------------------------------

I agree with Michael's points.A simple transaction consists of just one split but two parts, and saying (pretending) that a simple transaction has two splits is misleading.
I see no problems with the use of terms like 'simple transaction' (with one split and two parts) or with 'compound transactions' (with 2+ splits and 3+ parts), but it doesn't make sense to refer to the parts as splits. Why not just use the term 'parts' or 'transaction parts' or even invent a new word 'transparts'; (after all, GnuCash is a made up word too.)
Just because GnuCash developers previously defined the 'parts' of a transaction as 'splits' doesn't mean that the definition shouldn't be changed to make it clearer.
Kind regards,Alan


_______________________________________________

Thanks for your support, Alan,

also for inadvertently revealing that the terminology has confused you too!

QED

You say “A simple transaction consists of just one split…” - this is not true - it’s clear from everyday use of GC that there are two splits in a simple transaction, in other words that a split maps directly to what would be called a Ledger Entry in paper-and-ink bookkeeping. Similarly, a compound transaction is one with more than 2 splits.

More confusion is added to the mix by the appearance of the term “Split Transaction” in the Basic View of a register which includes a compound transaction. This may be the reason for your errors above.

As every transaction involves splits, this isn’t helpful. If it said “Compound Transaction” it would be much easier to comprehend, and would not need to cause problems for the underlying code or data.

I appreciate Derek’s point that removing the term “split” from the code and data would have consequences for future developers, and that the introduction of “Ledger Entry” would be awkward, but with some minor changes to the code and revision of the documentation this could all be resolved.

For example, consider this section:

"4.3. Simple vs. Split Transactions

"Every transaction in GnuCash has at least two splits, but a transaction can have more than two splits. A transaction with only two splits is called a simple transaction, since it only involves the current account and a single remote account. A transaction with three or more accounts is called a split transaction.

"When the register is in Basic view, you will see a summary of the splits affecting the current account. For a simple transaction, the Transfer column will display the other account from which money is transferred. For a split transaction, the Transfer column will display -- Split Transaction --. You can see the individual splits of each transaction by clicking the Split button in the Toolbar while selecting the appropriate transaction.”

I would suggest:

“4.3 Simple vs. Compound Transactions

"Every transaction in GnuCash has at least two entries, one recording the source account for the cash, and the other its destination. These are the equivalent of Ledger Entries in traditional bookkeeping, and are known as “splits” in GnuCash. A two-split transaction is called a Simple Transaction.

"It’s also possible to have more than two splits in a transaction, which is called a Compound Transaction.

"When the register is in Basic view, you will see a summary of the splits affecting the current account. For a simple transaction, the Transfer column will display the other account from which money is transferred. For a compound transaction, the Transfer column will display -- Compound Transaction --. You can see the individual splits of each transaction by clicking the Split button in the Toolbar while selecting the appropriate transaction.”


I think the implications for the code would be small, but the relevant sections of the documentation would have to be carefully reviewed.

Regards,

Michael

(Still hopeful of generating more light than heat)


_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

Michael or Penny Novack
I think this dispute has more to do with how we begin to learn about
transactions in double entry bookkeeping and that gnucash (and yes, most
equivalent "direct entry into the ledger" alternatives) begins with a
SIMPLIFIED entry that makes it quick/easy to enter the overwhelming
majority of transactions.

Let's go back to the way double entry was done, first entering
transactions into a "journal" and then later posting these to the
ledger. We can then define a transaction as:

a date, optionally a check number or transaction number
one OR MORE lines of debits, each with the account being debited and the
amount
one OR MORE lines of credits, each with the account being credited and
the amount
and optional description of this transaction
< with the condition that the total of the debit amounts and the total
of credit amounts must be the same>

This would then get posted to the ledger, each of those debit or credit
lines being a line in that ledger account.

Now in gnucash (and yes, in  most alternatives) the journal is virtual.
You begin entering directly in ANY of the affected accounts. Since MOST
transactions have only one other account being affected, the entry
process allows you to specify that on the same line. IF (for some
reason) you wanted to see the journal, there is a report you can run <<
aside: in the old days, transcription errors while manually posting were
the bulk of the the errors that had to be painstakingly found -- there
were a number of "tricks" you had to learn to help you find  the error >>

Because THIS (beginning with the simplest possible transaction form) is
how we begin entering with gnucash (and equivalents) we have a PROCESS
to switch to the more general form of transaction where there is more
than one debit, more than one credit, or both. That is called SPLIT.
When you hit the split button, it brings up a view of what the JOURNAL
entry would look like. All we are splitting is the view of a transaction
form one where see a single line (with one debit and one credit) to a
form where each debit and each credit appears on its own line.

The alternative software might call this process something else (say
"switch to journal view" instead of "split" but is doing the same thing.

In other words, this is a "work flow" matter. The developers (correctly)
decided to make it quick and easy to enter the overwhelming majority of
transactions instead of always requiring the process needed for the
rarer general case transaction.

Michael D Novack
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

GTI .H
I'm sorry for the contrary provisions, but this is the most natural of what
should be simple transactions and split transactions:

See the figure:

[image: Single-Split Transaction.JPG]
Anything out of it only makes sense for non-accounting contexts and it's a
arm wrestling of professionals of different areas.


--
Regards
GTI

_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Single-Split Transaction.JPG (30K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

Jack Lockard
Forgive me, but this seems like much ado about nothing. For me the explanation is simple. In every transaction there is a source account for the cash being distributed and one or more destination accounts where the cash is distributed to. It is proper to say when there is more than one destination account that you are splitting the cash into multiple destination accounts or you are dividing the cash into multiple destination accounts. Whether the term is splitting or dividing or another suitable word, it is a compound transaction when there is more than one destination account. To me I am just entering a transaction into the system and sometimes the cash is divided between multiple destination accounts. I really do not care what you call the transaction as long as I understand the principle behind what is going on.

Isn’t language and the workings of the human mind wonderful?

Jack


-----Original Message-----
From: gnucash-user <gnucash-user-bounces+jelockard=[hidden email]> On Behalf Of GTI .H
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2019 11:19 AM
To: gnucash-user <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

I'm sorry for the contrary provisions, but this is the most natural of what should be simple transactions and split transactions:

See the figure:

[image: Single-Split Transaction.JPG]
Anything out of it only makes sense for non-accounting contexts and it's a arm wrestling of professionals of different areas.


--
Regards
GTI
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

GnuCash - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Patrick-3
Thank you to those who have tried to educate me on the use of the word "split" in GnuCash, but whilst I believe that I understand how it is being used, the reason for using such an ambiguous term remains puzzling when better alternatives exist.
I have a piece of wood that has a split in it caused by uneven shrinkage. It is one piece of wood with one split. If I choose to propagate that split by forcing a wedge or axe into it, I end up with two pieces of wood and the split suddenly disappears. The split has not magically turned into two splits and if I plane the edges of the two pieces of wood there will be no evidence that the split ever existed.
I understand that GnuCash has been developed on the basis of double entry bookkeeping, which I believe gets its name from the fact that the details of every transaction are entered at least twice; I regard this as duplicated entry rather than split entry. For a simple transaction there is no splitting involved; all of the money passes from one account to another and is simply recorded in both accounts. The only transactions involving splits are those where a sum of money leaves the source account and is shared between two (or more) destination accounts or where the money from two (or more) source accounts passes to one destination account; these could truthfully be thought of as a split transactions or compound transactions.
Most confusion arises from using the word "split" to describe every ledger entry, regardless of whether any splitting has been done. Using the term "ledger entry" or simply "entry" to describe the constituent parts of a transaction works consistently, whereas using the term "split" to describe the same thing does not.
The term "double entry bookkeeping" makes sense, whereas the term "double split bookkeeping" does not, but that is how GnuCash appears to be defined.
Despite my comments above, I do like using GnuCash and appreciate the efforts made by its developers, but whenever I try to encourage others to use it, the perceived steep learning curve is the first concern and the use of confusing terminology doesn't help.
Kind regards,
Alan

_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Liz
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

Liz
On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 22:04:55 +0000 (UTC)
aeg via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you to those who have tried to educate me on the use of the
> word "split" in GnuCash, but whilst I believe that I understand how
> it is being used, the reason for using such an ambiguous term remains
> puzzling when better alternatives exist.
Every term in English is ambiguous - it's the nature of the language
and why jokes involving language are so prominent.


> I have a piece of wood that
> has a split in it caused by uneven shrinkage. It is one piece of wood
> with one split.
Split - noun.
Don't forget Split - verb


> If I choose to propagate that split
why did you choose "propagate" rather than "split"

> by forcing a
> wedge or axe into it, I end up with two pieces of wood and the split
> suddenly disappears.
No, the split has now enlarged to a point at which you can ignore it.


> The split has not magically turned into two splits
No, there is no magic. You still have a single split, but instead of it
being partial it is a complete split.


> and if I plane the edges of the two pieces of wood there will
> be no evidence that the split ever existed.
Cosmetic only.
We all know that it didn't grow like that, it was part of a bigger
whole, and that at the sawmill they made multiple splits to make logs.


Alan,
we are trying to present a number of different points of view, please
look at these different points of view.

Liz
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?

Patrick-3
In reply to this post by Patrick-3
Thank you again for this helpful information.

I did have one other question about this. When I enter a split transaction
directly into GnuCash (by using the "Split" button), it allows me to give
each split of that transaction its own description. Since - if I understood
your explanation properly - the CSV importer uses the "Description" field
to group consecutive transactions in the same split, does this mean that
when I am importing transactions using "multi-split," that I can't give
each split of the same transaction its own description, as I can when I am
entering them manually?

Regards,
Patrick

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:36 AM Patrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That makes sense. Thank you for the very helpful response and the example.
>
> Regards,
> Patrick
>
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 5:45 AM Geert Janssens <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Op zondag 17 maart 2019 00:55:38 CET schreef Patrick:
>>
>> > I would like to import split transacations from a CSV file. Based on the
>>
>> > help balloon for it, the "multi-split" option seems to be the way to do
>>
>> > this, but I am not sure how to use this option. Is there an example
>>
>> > somewhere of how to use this option?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > To be specific, what I don't understand is that when the multi-split
>> option
>>
>> > is disabled, I can set one column in the CSV to be the "Account", and
>>
>> > another column to be the "Transfer Account". Setting these two columns
>>
>> > allows me to specify the "credit" and "debit" accounts involved in the
>>
>> > transaction. However, when I enable the multi-split option, the option
>> to
>>
>> > set a "Transfer Account" goes away. So, I am not sure how to specify the
>>
>> > second of the two accounts involved with the transaction when
>> multi-split
>>
>> > is enabled.
>>
>>
>>
>> First off, strictly speaking each transaction is "multi-split" as even
>> the simplest transaction (a transfer from one account to another) has two
>> splits: one in the source account and one in the target account. The split
>> itself doesn't know about the transfer. It only knows which account it
>> belongs to.
>>
>>
>>
>> As a real example is always more helpful, let's assume a transaction that
>> transfers $100 from Account A to Account B. This would be represented with
>> two splits:
>>
>>
>>
>> Transaction date 2019-03-18
>>
>> Transaction description "Transfer"
>>
>> Split 1: Account A $100 (Withdrawal)
>>
>> Split 2: Account B $100 (Deposit)
>>
>>
>>
>> Converting this in a multi-split csv file that can be imported would
>> yield something like this:
>>
>> Date,Description,Account,Deposit,Withdrawal
>>
>> 2019-03-18,Transfer,Account A,,100
>>
>> 2019-03-18,Transfer,Account B,100,
>>
>>
>>
>> As you can see there is no need for a "Transfer Account" column in this
>> case. Each split is associated with one account, you only have to define
>> that account. GnuCash will use the transaction related fields (in this case
>> only "Date" and "Description") to detect transaction boundaries. As both
>> fields are identical on each line, GnuCash will assume both splits to be
>> part of the same transaction.
>>
>>
>>
>> The single-line import format is a shorthand that can only be used in
>> case of transactions with at most two splits. For that situation each line
>> represents such a full transaction and hence may hold information to define
>> two splits. For that reason it also provides two Account assignments
>> options (Account and Transfer Account) as each split in that transaction
>> can have one. So the above translated into a single line csv file would
>> look like this:
>>
>>
>>
>> Date,Description,Account,Transfer Account,Deposit
>>
>> 2019-03-18,Transfer,Account B,Account A,100
>>
>>
>>
>> You could say the single line import format is a special case to simplify
>> most imports from bank accounts while the multi-split format is more
>> generic and the only format that will ever be able to import multi-split
>> (that is more than two splits) transactions (1).
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Geert
>>
>>
>>
>> (1) Note there are currently issues with the csv importer for
>> multi-currency imports or stock imports. These will eventually be resolved
>> allowing the multi-split format to import every kind of transaction gnucash
>> supports internally.
>>
>
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

David Cousens
In reply to this post by foxylady337
Michael et al,

I suspect that whether we use a term like entry or split, we will no doubt find circumstances in which the usage can
become confusing or ambiguous. Entry can also mean a number of different things depending upon the context. What is
perhaps more important is to define what is meant by such a term when used in GnuCash and define the context in which
that definition applies. Then we can provide back references to that definition in the documentation so what is meant is
clear. I personally found split confusing when I first came across it as there were several other common usages in the
financial literature, but I quickly moved past that once I had established a definition and context for that definition
in my head. Split has also made it into Intuit's usage as well (equally undefined)

I think 20 years of history is sufficient reason to stay with the current usage (which is also prevalent throughout the
code base) provided we have an unambiguous definition for split and the context in which it applies in the documentation
and adequate reference to that definition throughout the documentation.

David Cousens


On Thu, 2019-03-21 at 18:17 +0000, Michael Hendry wrote:

> > On 21 Mar 2019, at 15:15, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I’m not sure ‘ledger entry’ is a prime choice either. If we were to consider the pen and paper world, this is done
> > as a ‘journal entry’ but that entry always has two components (debit and credit) with at minimum two accounts
> > involved. I’m going to dig up my accounting textbook and see how they reference the entries but I’m going to hazard
> > an early guess that there is no mention of the individual parts of the transaction other than debit/credit.
>
> Just checked my ancient primer, which starts a new business with a contribution of £3000 of capital from John Brown to
> the Cash Account.
>
> Two ledger pages are created, one called “Cash Account” numbered “L1" and the other “Capital Account - John Brown”
> numbered “L2”.
>
> On the Debit side of L1 there is a entry recording Capital of £3000 received from L2.
>
> On the Credit side of L2 there is a corresponding entry of a transfer of Cash to L1.
>
> These two separate but linked “Ledger Entries" make up the one “Transaction".
>
> I’d be surprised if the overall process is different in the US, but the nomenclature might well diverge.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
> >
> > Regards,
> > Adrien
> >
> > > On Mar 21, 2019, at 9:46 AM, D via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > It seems circular to say that there is a distinction between a simple and compound transaction, and then say a
> > > simple transaction is a special case compound transaction. Then we're back at defining the difference between,
> > > say, a "split" transaction versus a "multi-split" transaction, which we're trying to move away from as justifiably
> > > confusing.
> > >
> > > Calling one a "simple" transaction, and the others "compound" seems like enough. Perhaps the explanation of the
> > > technical aspects of this (i.e., the structure of a two sided simple, as opposed to an n-sided {n>2} compound
> > > transaction), could use the term "split," as it is defined by  Gnucash. This would disambiguate the use of the
> > > term "split," such that it would only be used for this specific case.
> > >
> > > Regardless, I am still against the "Ledger entry" locution.
> > >
> > > Perhaps we need a translation from American English to British English...
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
--
Dr David R Cousens
B.Sc, M.Prof. Acc., Ph.D., G.C.Ed

_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
David Cousens
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?

David Cousens
In reply to this post by Patrick-3
Patrick,

When the Transaction is opened with the split button, the Description field name should change to Memo. There are other
changes in the headings as described in the documentation (
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-help/trans-multi-enter.html). If my understanding is correct, each split of a
transaction has its own Memo field while the Description field is attached to the transaction which consists of 2 or
more splits. The same description should also come up if you open the transaction in another register that there is a
split to.  You can enter different information in the Memo field if you wish.

I think the importer matches on the Description field for the transaction by tokenizing its content and matching to the
tokenized forms of the description field of existing transactions which is weighted along with the matching of amounts,
dates, etc. I don't think the Memo field is involved in matching AFAIK but I haven't checked the code out to see. Geert
may be able to comment on that as he is more familiar with the code than I am.

I think you can specify the Memo field in the multisplit format as well as the Description field. I am away from home at
the moment so I can't check for sure.

David



On Sat, 2019-03-23 at 19:07 -0500, Patrick wrote:

> Thank you again for this helpful information.
>
> I did have one other question about this. When I enter a split transaction
> directly into GnuCash (by using the "Split" button), it allows me to give
> each split of that transaction its own description. Since - if I understood
> your explanation properly - the CSV importer uses the "Description" field
> to group consecutive transactions in the same split, does this mean that
> when I am importing transactions using "multi-split," that I can't give
> each split of the same transaction its own description, as I can when I am
> entering them manually?
>
> Regards,
> Patrick
>
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:36 AM Patrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > That makes sense. Thank you for the very helpful response and the example.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Patrick
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 5:45 AM Geert Janssens <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Op zondag 17 maart 2019 00:55:38 CET schreef Patrick:
> > >
> > > > I would like to import split transacations from a CSV file. Based on the
> > > > help balloon for it, the "multi-split" option seems to be the way to do
> > > > this, but I am not sure how to use this option. Is there an example
> > > > somewhere of how to use this option?
> > > >
> > > > To be specific, what I don't understand is that when the multi-split
> > >
> > > option
> > >
> > > > is disabled, I can set one column in the CSV to be the "Account", and
> > > > another column to be the "Transfer Account". Setting these two columns
> > > > allows me to specify the "credit" and "debit" accounts involved in the
> > > > transaction. However, when I enable the multi-split option, the option
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > set a "Transfer Account" goes away. So, I am not sure how to specify the
> > > > second of the two accounts involved with the transaction when
> > >
> > > multi-split
> > >
> > > > is enabled.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > First off, strictly speaking each transaction is "multi-split" as even
> > > the simplest transaction (a transfer from one account to another) has two
> > > splits: one in the source account and one in the target account. The split
> > > itself doesn't know about the transfer. It only knows which account it
> > > belongs to.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As a real example is always more helpful, let's assume a transaction that
> > > transfers $100 from Account A to Account B. This would be represented with
> > > two splits:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Transaction date 2019-03-18
> > >
> > > Transaction description "Transfer"
> > >
> > > Split 1: Account A $100 (Withdrawal)
> > >
> > > Split 2: Account B $100 (Deposit)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Converting this in a multi-split csv file that can be imported would
> > > yield something like this:
> > >
> > > Date,Description,Account,Deposit,Withdrawal
> > >
> > > 2019-03-18,Transfer,Account A,,100
> > >
> > > 2019-03-18,Transfer,Account B,100,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As you can see there is no need for a "Transfer Account" column in this
> > > case. Each split is associated with one account, you only have to define
> > > that account. GnuCash will use the transaction related fields (in this case
> > > only "Date" and "Description") to detect transaction boundaries. As both
> > > fields are identical on each line, GnuCash will assume both splits to be
> > > part of the same transaction.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The single-line import format is a shorthand that can only be used in
> > > case of transactions with at most two splits. For that situation each line
> > > represents such a full transaction and hence may hold information to define
> > > two splits. For that reason it also provides two Account assignments
> > > options (Account and Transfer Account) as each split in that transaction
> > > can have one. So the above translated into a single line csv file would
> > > look like this:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Date,Description,Account,Transfer Account,Deposit
> > >
> > > 2019-03-18,Transfer,Account B,Account A,100
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You could say the single line import format is a special case to simplify
> > > most imports from bank accounts while the multi-split format is more
> > > generic and the only format that will ever be able to import multi-split
> > > (that is more than two splits) transactions (1).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Geert
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > (1) Note there are currently issues with the csv importer for
> > > multi-currency imports or stock imports. These will eventually be resolved
> > > allowing the multi-split format to import every kind of transaction gnucash
> > > supports internally.
> > >
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
--
Dr David R Cousens
B.Sc, M.Prof. Acc., Ph.D., G.C.Ed

_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
David Cousens
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

Michael or Penny Novack
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
On 3/23/2019 6:04 PM, aeg via gnucash-user wrote:
> Thank you to those who have tried to educate me on the use of the word "split" in GnuCash, but whilst I believe that I understand how it is being used, the reason for using such an ambiguous term remains puzzling when better alternatives exist.
Is the objection then just to the term "split" being used when going
from the simplified method of entry (usable for the vast majority of
transactions where only two accounts are involved) to the more general
"journal view" form of entry that can be used for any transaction?

You are right in the sense that nothing is being "split". The developers
could have used something more descriptive like "enter in journal view".

Do you understand that gnucash would allow you to enter even simple
(just two accounts affected) transactions in this more complicated way?
Instead of entering the second account in the space provided hit the
"split" button (the "change to journal view" button) and enter the
second account on its own line. In other words, the "simple" (unsplit)
method of entry is simply a work flow shortcut making entering the vast
majority of transactions much faster/easier.

To those of us who learned bookkeeping in the "old days", first entering
transactions in the journal, what is happening with "split" is obvious.
We are entering transactions the "old fashioned way" and with the hit of
the <enter> key at the end doing the "post".

Those of us who know the computer language c and unix know that strange
(hard to read shortened spellings) were used by the engineers at Bell
Labs who preferred shorter (less key strokes) even if they had to be
memorized. Thus "mount" and "umount" (had to remember, no first "n"). I
heard that this is because none of them could touch type. But also how
engineer minds work, in the long run, less time spent learning that
"umount" was spelled that way than all the times afterwards hitting that
extra "n".

Just think of "enter in journal view" as being spelled "split".

Michael D Novack
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

GnuCash - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Patrick-3
Liz.
I've responded to your comments collectively in order because inserting responses within quoted text has not worked properly on previous occasions, so please bear with me...
   
   - I don't believe every term in English in ambiguous.
   - There is no verb form of "split" present in the example I gave, although it is true that the wood had split(v) at some time in the past..
   - I used "propagate" to mean that the split was forced to grow.
   - The split itself has gone, only the effects of the split remain in the form of uneven edges to the piece of wood.
   - It is interesting to note that you think there is just a single split at this stage because GnuCash would interpret it as two!
   - Sawmills don't make logs by splitting. Logs are cut directly from trees by sawing. Sawmills convert logs and trees into usable timber by sawing; that's why they are called sawmills.

Whilst I do respect everyone's point of view, it is clear that I've wasted far too much valuable time trying to help eradicate confusing terminology from GnuCash. I've clearly failed, but I do know that most of the transactions I enter in GnuCash involve no splits at the user level, so I shall continue to use it for double entry bookkeeping rather than double split bookkeeping.
That's all from me on this topic you'll no doubt be relieved to know!.
Kind regards,
Alan


> Thank you to those who have tried to educate me on the use of the
> word "split" in GnuCash, but whilst I believe that I understand how
> it is being used, the reason for using such an ambiguous term remains
> puzzling when better alternatives exist.
Every term in English is ambiguous - it's the nature of the language
and why jokes involving language are so prominent.


> I have a piece of wood that
> has a split in it caused by uneven shrinkage. It is one piece of wood
> with one split.
Split - noun.
Don't forget Split - verb
 

> If I choose to propagate that split
why did you choose "propagate" rather than "split"

> by forcing a
> wedge or axe into it, I end up with two pieces of wood and the split
> suddenly disappears.
No, the split has now enlarged to a point at which you can ignore it.


> The split has not magically turned into two splits
No, there is no magic. You still have a single split, but instead of it
being partial it is a complete split.


> and if I plane the edges of the two pieces of wood there will
> be no evidence that the split ever existed.
Cosmetic only.
We all know that it didn't grow like that, it was part of a bigger
whole, and that at the sawmill they made multiple splits to make logs.


Alan,
we are trying to present a number of different points of view, please
look at these different points of view.

Liz


------------------------------

   
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

David Carlson-4
Alan

You have triggered a debate  on a very sensitive topic, which is exciting!

Hopefully, we will come to a consensus of opinion and then move forward
together.

David Carlson

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 2:24 PM aeg via gnucash-user <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Liz.
> I've responded to your comments collectively in order because inserting
> responses within quoted text has not worked properly on previous occasions,
> so please bear with me...
>
>    - I don't believe every term in English in ambiguous.
>    - There is no verb form of "split" present in the example I gave,
> although it is true that the wood had split(v) at some time in the past..
>    - I used "propagate" to mean that the split was forced to grow.
>    - The split itself has gone, only the effects of the split remain in
> the form of uneven edges to the piece of wood.
>    - It is interesting to note that you think there is just a single split
> at this stage because GnuCash would interpret it as two!
>    - Sawmills don't make logs by splitting. Logs are cut directly from
> trees by sawing. Sawmills convert logs and trees into usable timber by
> sawing; that's why they are called sawmills.
>
> Whilst I do respect everyone's point of view, it is clear that I've wasted
> far too much valuable time trying to help eradicate confusing terminology
> from GnuCash. I've clearly failed, but I do know that most of the
> transactions I enter in GnuCash involve no splits at the user level, so I
> shall continue to use it for double entry bookkeeping rather than double
> split bookkeeping.
> That's all from me on this topic you'll no doubt be relieved to know!.
> Kind regards,
> Alan
>
>
> > Thank you to those who have tried to educate me on the use of the
> > word "split" in GnuCash, but whilst I believe that I understand how
> > it is being used, the reason for using such an ambiguous term remains
> > puzzling when better alternatives exist.
> Every term in English is ambiguous - it's the nature of the language
> and why jokes involving language are so prominent.
>
>
> > I have a piece of wood that
> > has a split in it caused by uneven shrinkage. It is one piece of wood
> > with one split.
> Split - noun.
> Don't forget Split - verb
>
>
> > If I choose to propagate that split
> why did you choose "propagate" rather than "split"
>
> > by forcing a
> > wedge or axe into it, I end up with two pieces of wood and the split
> > suddenly disappears.
> No, the split has now enlarged to a point at which you can ignore it.
>
>
> > The split has not magically turned into two splits
> No, there is no magic. You still have a single split, but instead of it
> being partial it is a complete split.
>
>
> > and if I plane the edges of the two pieces of wood there will
> > be no evidence that the split ever existed.
> Cosmetic only.
> We all know that it didn't grow like that, it was part of a bigger
> whole, and that at the sawmill they made multiple splits to make logs.
>
>
> Alan,
> we are trying to present a number of different points of view, please
> look at these different points of view.
>
> Liz
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

nvsoar
snip

FWIW - this old owl looks at every GnuCash transaction as having one
source and one or more sinks; and doesn't give a hoot about splits,
simple transactions, compound transactions inter alia. Have enjoyed the
back and forth.

Many thanks to the GnuCash developers, contributors and the members of
the list.

All the best from the Carson Valley,
nvsoar

_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?

Geert Janssens-4
In reply to this post by David Cousens
Op zondag 24 maart 2019 02:47:37 CET schreef David Cousens:

> Patrick,
>
> When the Transaction is opened with the split button, the Description field
> name should change to Memo. There are other changes in the headings as
> described in the documentation (
> https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-help/trans-multi-enter.html). If
> my understanding is correct, each split of a transaction has its own Memo
> field while the Description field is attached to the transaction which
> consists of 2 or more splits. The same description should also come up if
> you open the transaction in another register that there is a split to.  You
> can enter different information in the Memo field if you wish.
>
> I think the importer matches on the Description field for the transaction by
> tokenizing its content and matching to the tokenized forms of the
> description field of existing transactions which is weighted along with the
> matching of amounts, dates, etc. I don't think the Memo field is involved
> in matching AFAIK but I haven't checked the code out to see. Geert may be
> able to comment on that as he is more familiar with the code than I am.
>
> I think you can specify the Memo field in the multisplit format as well as
> the Description field. I am away from home at the moment so I can't check
> for sure.
>
> David

That explains it very well indeed.

In short: transactions have a description, splits have a memo. If you want each individual split to
have some descriptive information, you can add this in the memo field (which is also supported
by the importer). If you want the whole transaction to have some descriptive information, you
can add this in the transaction's description field.

And as David says, the csv importer will use the description field (and all other transaction
related fields) to determine transaction boundaries. As the memo fields is a related to splits its
contents will not affect this boundary detection.

Geert
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

Derek Atkins-3
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
aeg via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> writes:

[snip]
> level, so I shall continue to use it for double entry bookkeeping
> rather than double split bookkeeping.

It is double-entry (even in basic mode) because you are entering both
debits and credits.  It is still double-entry even if you have 5 splits.
This is another "term-of-art".

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

--
       Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
       [hidden email]             www.ihtfp.com
       Computer and Internet Security Consultant
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

Adrien Monteleone-2
In reply to this post by foxylady337
While I don’t have an issue with the use of the term ’split’ as a noun (seems quite normal to me) after looking at my Accounting textbook, I see the authors simply refer to each debit/credit as an ‘entry’ which of course makes sense in light of the phrase ‘double-entry accounting.’ They however distinguish between ‘ledger entries’ which are those individual debits and credits in their respective accounts, and ‘journal entries’ which are to proceed posting to the ledgers in a formal ink-paper system. Since formal paper systems use a journal (and GnuCash has a virtual journal and substitutes ‘registers’ instead with a ’shortcut single line entry system') and all debits and credits are always visible there, the text does not have a distinction between transactions that have only two entries (one dr./one cr.) and those that have 3 or more.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Mar 23, 2019, at 5:39 AM, Michael Hendry <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 22 Mar 2019, at 19:33, aeg via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> I agree with Michael's points.A simple transaction consists of just one split but two parts, and saying (pretending) that a simple transaction has two splits is misleading.
> I see no problems with the use of terms like 'simple transaction' (with one split and two parts) or with 'compound transactions' (with 2+ splits and 3+ parts), but it doesn't make sense to refer to the parts as splits. Why not just use the term 'parts' or 'transaction parts' or even invent a new word 'transparts'; (after all, GnuCash is a made up word too.)
> Just because GnuCash developers previously defined the 'parts' of a transaction as 'splits' doesn't mean that the definition shouldn't be changed to make it clearer.
> Kind regards,Alan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Thanks for your support, Alan,
>
> also for inadvertently revealing that the terminology has confused you too!
>
> QED
>
> You say “A simple transaction consists of just one split…” - this is not true - it’s clear from everyday use of GC that there are two splits in a simple transaction, in other words that a split maps directly to what would be called a Ledger Entry in paper-and-ink bookkeeping. Similarly, a compound transaction is one with more than 2 splits.
>
> More confusion is added to the mix by the appearance of the term “Split Transaction” in the Basic View of a register which includes a compound transaction. This may be the reason for your errors above.
>
> As every transaction involves splits, this isn’t helpful. If it said “Compound Transaction” it would be much easier to comprehend, and would not need to cause problems for the underlying code or data.
>
> I appreciate Derek’s point that removing the term “split” from the code and data would have consequences for future developers, and that the introduction of “Ledger Entry” would be awkward, but with some minor changes to the code and revision of the documentation this could all be resolved.
>
> For example, consider this section:
>
> "4.3. Simple vs. Split Transactions
>
> "Every transaction in GnuCash has at least two splits, but a transaction can have more than two splits. A transaction with only two splits is called a simple transaction, since it only involves the current account and a single remote account. A transaction with three or more accounts is called a split transaction.
>
> "When the register is in Basic view, you will see a summary of the splits affecting the current account. For a simple transaction, the Transfer column will display the other account from which money is transferred. For a split transaction, the Transfer column will display -- Split Transaction --. You can see the individual splits of each transaction by clicking the Split button in the Toolbar while selecting the appropriate transaction.”
>
> I would suggest:
>
> “4.3 Simple vs. Compound Transactions
>
> "Every transaction in GnuCash has at least two entries, one recording the source account for the cash, and the other its destination. These are the equivalent of Ledger Entries in traditional bookkeeping, and are known as “splits” in GnuCash. A two-split transaction is called a Simple Transaction.
>
> "It’s also possible to have more than two splits in a transaction, which is called a Compound Transaction.
>
> "When the register is in Basic view, you will see a summary of the splits affecting the current account. For a simple transaction, the Transfer column will display the other account from which money is transferred. For a compound transaction, the Transfer column will display -- Compound Transaction --. You can see the individual splits of each transaction by clicking the Split button in the Toolbar while selecting the appropriate transaction.”
>
>
> I think the implications for the code would be small, but the relevant sections of the documentation would have to be carefully reviewed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
> (Still hopeful of generating more light than heat)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.


_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] The Meaning of Split (previously Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?)

Adrien Monteleone-2
In reply to this post by Michael or Penny Novack
I think the confusion is arising because the default view (well intentioned for simplicity for new users) is hiding the double-entry nature of the actual data and this necessitated special terms and definitions for ’simple transaction’ and ‘compound transaction’ and then someone decided to use the term ’split transaction’ instead for one of those and then for clarification, exacerbated the confusion with ‘multi-split transaction’ as a substitute for ‘compound transaction’.

If we just abandon the use of ’split transaction’ (since they are all split at least once) and ‘multi-split transaction’ (since we have the defined ‘compound transaction’ to use) things might clear up a bit. Of course, the documentation is fine, this is just a communication and comprehension failing in a list conversation.

On another note, while I have long known that mnemonics and abbreviations were used by programmers to save time (and storage space), I never considered how the time saved typing an extra letter, or few, more than made up for the small amount of time spent learning the command name and mapping it in my brain to the natural language term for what I’m trying to accomplish, especially considering I use some of those cryptic (to others) commands multiple times on a daily basis. Thanks for that tid-bit.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Michael or Penny Novack <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 3/23/2019 6:04 PM, aeg via gnucash-user wrote:
>> Thank you to those who have tried to educate me on the use of the word "split" in GnuCash, but whilst I believe that I understand how it is being used, the reason for using such an ambiguous term remains puzzling when better alternatives exist.
> Is the objection then just to the term "split" being used when going from the simplified method of entry (usable for the vast majority of transactions where only two accounts are involved) to the more general "journal view" form of entry that can be used for any transaction?
>
> You are right in the sense that nothing is being "split". The developers could have used something more descriptive like "enter in journal view".
>
> Do you understand that gnucash would allow you to enter even simple (just two accounts affected) transactions in this more complicated way? Instead of entering the second account in the space provided hit the "split" button (the "change to journal view" button) and enter the second account on its own line. In other words, the "simple" (unsplit) method of entry is simply a work flow shortcut making entering the vast majority of transactions much faster/easier.
>
> To those of us who learned bookkeeping in the "old days", first entering transactions in the journal, what is happening with "split" is obvious. We are entering transactions the "old fashioned way" and with the hit of the <enter> key at the end doing the "post".
>
> Those of us who know the computer language c and unix know that strange (hard to read shortened spellings) were used by the engineers at Bell Labs who preferred shorter (less key strokes) even if they had to be memorized. Thus "mount" and "umount" (had to remember, no first "n"). I heard that this is because none of them could touch type. But also how engineer minds work, in the long run, less time spent learning that "umount" was spelled that way than all the times afterwards hitting that extra "n".
>
> Just think of "enter in journal view" as being spelled "split".
>
> Michael D Novack

_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?

Patrick-3
In reply to this post by Geert Janssens-4
David, Geert,

Thank you for this helpful guidance. I hope to try this soon.

Regards,
Patrick

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 5:18 AM Geert Janssens <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Op zondag 24 maart 2019 02:47:37 CET schreef David Cousens:
>
> > Patrick,
>
> >
>
> > When the Transaction is opened with the split button, the Description
> field
>
> > name should change to Memo. There are other changes in the headings as
>
> > described in the documentation (
>
> > https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-help/trans-multi-enter.html).
> If
>
> > my understanding is correct, each split of a transaction has its own Memo
>
> > field while the Description field is attached to the transaction which
>
> > consists of 2 or more splits. The same description should also come up if
>
> > you open the transaction in another register that there is a split to.
> You
>
> > can enter different information in the Memo field if you wish.
>
> >
>
> > I think the importer matches on the Description field for the
> transaction by
>
> > tokenizing its content and matching to the tokenized forms of the
>
> > description field of existing transactions which is weighted along with
> the
>
> > matching of amounts, dates, etc. I don't think the Memo field is involved
>
> > in matching AFAIK but I haven't checked the code out to see. Geert may be
>
> > able to comment on that as he is more familiar with the code than I am.
>
> >
>
> > I think you can specify the Memo field in the multisplit format as well
> as
>
> > the Description field. I am away from home at the moment so I can't check
>
> > for sure.
>
> >
>
> > David
>
>
>
> That explains it very well indeed.
>
>
>
> In short: transactions have a description, splits have a memo. If you want
> each individual split to have some descriptive information, you can add
> this in the memo field (which is also supported by the importer). If you
> want the whole transaction to have some descriptive information, you can
> add this in the transaction's description field.
>
>
>
> And as David says, the csv importer will use the description field (and
> all other transaction related fields) to determine transaction boundaries.
> As the memo fields is a related to splits its contents will not affect this
> boundary detection.
>
>
>
> Geert
>
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [GNC] Example of multi-split feature of CSV importer?

David Carlson-4
I would like to add that the generic importer shows the memos of matched
existing transactions rather than the descriptions on the page where
incoming transactions are matched to existing since it better fits the
notion of matching to the base 'split' account.  I presume that the
improved CSV importer follows that behavior.

David Carlson

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:35 PM Patrick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> David, Geert,
>
> Thank you for this helpful guidance. I hope to try this soon.
>
> Regards,
> Patrick
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 5:18 AM Geert Janssens <[hidden email]
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Op zondag 24 maart 2019 02:47:37 CET schreef David Cousens:
> >
> > > Patrick,
> >
> > >
> >
> > > When the Transaction is opened with the split button, the Description
> > field
> >
> > > name should change to Memo. There are other changes in the headings as
> >
> > > described in the documentation (
> >
> > > https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-help/trans-multi-enter.html
> ).
> > If
> >
> > > my understanding is correct, each split of a transaction has its own
> Memo
> >
> > > field while the Description field is attached to the transaction which
> >
> > > consists of 2 or more splits. The same description should also come up
> if
> >
> > > you open the transaction in another register that there is a split to.
> > You
> >
> > > can enter different information in the Memo field if you wish.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I think the importer matches on the Description field for the
> > transaction by
> >
> > > tokenizing its content and matching to the tokenized forms of the
> >
> > > description field of existing transactions which is weighted along with
> > the
> >
> > > matching of amounts, dates, etc. I don't think the Memo field is
> involved
> >
> > > in matching AFAIK but I haven't checked the code out to see. Geert may
> be
> >
> > > able to comment on that as he is more familiar with the code than I am.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I think you can specify the Memo field in the multisplit format as well
> > as
> >
> > > the Description field. I am away from home at the moment so I can't
> check
> >
> > > for sure.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > David
> >
> >
> >
> > That explains it very well indeed.
> >
> >
> >
> > In short: transactions have a description, splits have a memo. If you
> want
> > each individual split to have some descriptive information, you can add
> > this in the memo field (which is also supported by the importer). If you
> > want the whole transaction to have some descriptive information, you can
> > add this in the transaction's description field.
> >
> >
> >
> > And as David says, the csv importer will use the description field (and
> > all other transaction related fields) to determine transaction
> boundaries.
> > As the memo fields is a related to splits its contents will not affect
> this
> > boundary detection.
> >
> >
> >
> > Geert
> >
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>


--
David Carlson
_______________________________________________
gnucash-user mailing list
[hidden email]
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-----
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
1234