[GNC] End of year rollover

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[GNC] End of year rollover

garage cowboy
Hi   - I am a new gnucash user  ( just a few weeks).

First of all, congratulations and thanks to all those  who have contributed
to  this great product.

My question is about EOFY processes   - I am used to products  which have
an end of year rollover process which clears reconciled transactions   - is
there equivalent function in gnucash?  What is the recommended approach?
am wondering  what will happen in a few years  when there are thousand of
transactions in the xml  file.

Also interested in contributing to the cause  but not a developer.

regards,

GC
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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Adrien Monteleone-2
Welcome to GnuCash!

There is a ‘close books’ procedure you can use that zeros expenses and income to equity as ‘retained earnings/losses’ but you don’t have to use it. GnuCash does not require that you clear anything out at the end of the year. (and doing so can impact your ability to run reports in some cases)

There are people with 10+ years of data in very large files (with lots of stock tracking) and other than some slow loading times, there aren’t any major issues. (there are work arounds for the slow loading - somewhat)

Some people do a close books and open a new file each year. But that process requires archiving reports and the data files. It also means you can’t run reports for multiple years without external help (like from a spread sheet) or you can’t run reports that cross yearly boundaries. (say from 4Q18 to 1Q19) And if you want to look at prior year(s) data, you have to open each of those files separately.

The Chart of Accounts tab has an available column for totals that show all data in the entire book. (running totals from when you started using GnuCash) It also has a column you can make visible for totals just for this accounting period. (year) That way you can have an ‘at a glance’ view of your accounts without running Income Statements or Balance Sheets. (but those are available of course if you need them) The Summary Bar also shows current net worth and retained earnings/losses.

My personal workflow is to not use the close books procedure, make the current period totals visible on the Accounts tab, as well as keep open a YTD P&L, and a monthly P&L for last month and this month. I run Balance Sheets as needed. I also never close GnuCash except for upgrades. Thus I don’t experience the data file loading but a few times a year. And it is still relatively painless. (special note - loading is significantly slower if you leave reports open when closing the app. They will be loading on re-opening the program which takes some time)

As for reconciled transactions, they don’t ‘go away.’ But you can filter your register views if you don’t want to see them. (or any transaction before a certain date, say in the previous year)

Regards,
Adrien

> On Mar 19, 2019, at 5:36 AM, garage cowboy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi   - I am a new gnucash user  ( just a few weeks).
>
> First of all, congratulations and thanks to all those  who have contributed
> to  this great product.
>
> My question is about EOFY processes   - I am used to products  which have
> an end of year rollover process which clears reconciled transactions   - is
> there equivalent function in gnucash?  What is the recommended approach?
> am wondering  what will happen in a few years  when there are thousand of
> transactions in the xml  file.
>
> Also interested in contributing to the cause  but not a developer.
>
> regards,
>
> GC


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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

garage cowboy
Thanks for the reply -  and the helpful tips.

regards,

ALT

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 10:42 PM Adrien Monteleone <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Welcome to GnuCash!
>
> There is a ‘close books’ procedure you can use that zeros expenses and
> income to equity as ‘retained earnings/losses’ but you don’t have to use
> it. GnuCash does not require that you clear anything out at the end of the
> year. (and doing so can impact your ability to run reports in some cases)
>
> There are people with 10+ years of data in very large files (with lots of
> stock tracking) and other than some slow loading times, there aren’t any
> major issues. (there are work arounds for the slow loading - somewhat)
>
> Some people do a close books and open a new file each year. But that
> process requires archiving reports and the data files. It also means you
> can’t run reports for multiple years without external help (like from a
> spread sheet) or you can’t run reports that cross yearly boundaries. (say
> from 4Q18 to 1Q19) And if you want to look at prior year(s) data, you have
> to open each of those files separately.
>
> The Chart of Accounts tab has an available column for totals that show all
> data in the entire book. (running totals from when you started using
> GnuCash) It also has a column you can make visible for totals just for this
> accounting period. (year) That way you can have an ‘at a glance’ view of
> your accounts without running Income Statements or Balance Sheets. (but
> those are available of course if you need them) The Summary Bar also shows
> current net worth and retained earnings/losses.
>
> My personal workflow is to not use the close books procedure, make the
> current period totals visible on the Accounts tab, as well as keep open a
> YTD P&L, and a monthly P&L for last month and this month. I run Balance
> Sheets as needed. I also never close GnuCash except for upgrades. Thus I
> don’t experience the data file loading but a few times a year. And it is
> still relatively painless. (special note - loading is significantly slower
> if you leave reports open when closing the app. They will be loading on
> re-opening the program which takes some time)
>
> As for reconciled transactions, they don’t ‘go away.’ But you can filter
> your register views if you don’t want to see them. (or any transaction
> before a certain date, say in the previous year)
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> > On Mar 19, 2019, at 5:36 AM, garage cowboy <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi   - I am a new gnucash user  ( just a few weeks).
> >
> > First of all, congratulations and thanks to all those  who have
> contributed
> > to  this great product.
> >
> > My question is about EOFY processes   - I am used to products  which have
> > an end of year rollover process which clears reconciled transactions   -
> is
> > there equivalent function in gnucash?  What is the recommended approach?
> > am wondering  what will happen in a few years  when there are thousand of
> > transactions in the xml  file.
> >
> > Also interested in contributing to the cause  but not a developer.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > GC
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
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> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Matthew Andrews
Hi Adrien,

I just joined this list with the same question.  Great timing!  I like
your suggestion.  It seems easier than starting a completely new file,
importing the accounts tree, and entering any starting balances left
over from the previous year.

It took me a bit of time to figure out how to add a column to the chart
of accounts.  I found the answer in chapter 10 of the gnucash-guide.pdf,
in case anyone else is looking.  There's a little down arrow on the top
right corner of the accounts window that gives more display options.

Adding my thanks!


~Matthew



On 3/20/19 6:36 AM, garage cowboy wrote:

> Thanks for the reply -  and the helpful tips.
>
> regards,
>
> ALT
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 10:42 PM Adrien Monteleone <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Welcome to GnuCash!
>>
>> There is a ‘close books’ procedure you can use that zeros expenses and
>> income to equity as ‘retained earnings/losses’ but you don’t have to use
>> it. GnuCash does not require that you clear anything out at the end of the
>> year. (and doing so can impact your ability to run reports in some cases)
>>
>> There are people with 10+ years of data in very large files (with lots of
>> stock tracking) and other than some slow loading times, there aren’t any
>> major issues. (there are work arounds for the slow loading - somewhat)
>>
>> Some people do a close books and open a new file each year. But that
>> process requires archiving reports and the data files. It also means you
>> can’t run reports for multiple years without external help (like from a
>> spread sheet) or you can’t run reports that cross yearly boundaries. (say
>> from 4Q18 to 1Q19) And if you want to look at prior year(s) data, you have
>> to open each of those files separately.
>>
>> The Chart of Accounts tab has an available column for totals that show all
>> data in the entire book. (running totals from when you started using
>> GnuCash) It also has a column you can make visible for totals just for this
>> accounting period. (year) That way you can have an ‘at a glance’ view of
>> your accounts without running Income Statements or Balance Sheets. (but
>> those are available of course if you need them) The Summary Bar also shows
>> current net worth and retained earnings/losses.
>>
>> My personal workflow is to not use the close books procedure, make the
>> current period totals visible on the Accounts tab, as well as keep open a
>> YTD P&L, and a monthly P&L for last month and this month. I run Balance
>> Sheets as needed. I also never close GnuCash except for upgrades. Thus I
>> don’t experience the data file loading but a few times a year. And it is
>> still relatively painless. (special note - loading is significantly slower
>> if you leave reports open when closing the app. They will be loading on
>> re-opening the program which takes some time)
>>
>> As for reconciled transactions, they don’t ‘go away.’ But you can filter
>> your register views if you don’t want to see them. (or any transaction
>> before a certain date, say in the previous year)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>>
>>> On Mar 19, 2019, at 5:36 AM, garage cowboy <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi   - I am a new gnucash user  ( just a few weeks).
>>>
>>> First of all, congratulations and thanks to all those  who have
>> contributed
>>> to  this great product.
>>>
>>> My question is about EOFY processes   - I am used to products  which have
>>> an end of year rollover process which clears reconciled transactions   -
>> is
>>> there equivalent function in gnucash?  What is the recommended approach?
>>> am wondering  what will happen in a few years  when there are thousand of
>>> transactions in the xml  file.
>>>
>>> Also interested in contributing to the cause  but not a developer.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> GC
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>> -----
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Philip Burg
I would like to close my books at the end of my financial year but have access to the previous years files, my thoughts were to archive the file at the end of the year by backing up to a cd/dvd then start afresh with the new financial year. would  this be possible. I am using windows 10 and Gnucash Version 3.4 Build I.D. 3.4+(2018-12-30)



Regards

Philip Burg





Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: gnucash-user <gnucash-user-bounces+philip_burg=[hidden email]> on behalf of Matthew Andrews <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 3:57:12 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Hi Adrien,

I just joined this list with the same question.  Great timing!  I like
your suggestion.  It seems easier than starting a completely new file,
importing the accounts tree, and entering any starting balances left
over from the previous year.

It took me a bit of time to figure out how to add a column to the chart
of accounts.  I found the answer in chapter 10 of the gnucash-guide.pdf,
in case anyone else is looking.  There's a little down arrow on the top
right corner of the accounts window that gives more display options.

Adding my thanks!


~Matthew



On 3/20/19 6:36 AM, garage cowboy wrote:

> Thanks for the reply -  and the helpful tips.
>
> regards,
>
> ALT
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 10:42 PM Adrien Monteleone <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Welcome to GnuCash!
>>
>> There is a ‘close books’ procedure you can use that zeros expenses and
>> income to equity as ‘retained earnings/losses’ but you don’t have to use
>> it. GnuCash does not require that you clear anything out at the end of the
>> year. (and doing so can impact your ability to run reports in some cases)
>>
>> There are people with 10+ years of data in very large files (with lots of
>> stock tracking) and other than some slow loading times, there aren’t any
>> major issues. (there are work arounds for the slow loading - somewhat)
>>
>> Some people do a close books and open a new file each year. But that
>> process requires archiving reports and the data files. It also means you
>> can’t run reports for multiple years without external help (like from a
>> spread sheet) or you can’t run reports that cross yearly boundaries. (say
>> from 4Q18 to 1Q19) And if you want to look at prior year(s) data, you have
>> to open each of those files separately.
>>
>> The Chart of Accounts tab has an available column for totals that show all
>> data in the entire book. (running totals from when you started using
>> GnuCash) It also has a column you can make visible for totals just for this
>> accounting period. (year) That way you can have an ‘at a glance’ view of
>> your accounts without running Income Statements or Balance Sheets. (but
>> those are available of course if you need them) The Summary Bar also shows
>> current net worth and retained earnings/losses.
>>
>> My personal workflow is to not use the close books procedure, make the
>> current period totals visible on the Accounts tab, as well as keep open a
>> YTD P&L, and a monthly P&L for last month and this month. I run Balance
>> Sheets as needed. I also never close GnuCash except for upgrades. Thus I
>> don’t experience the data file loading but a few times a year. And it is
>> still relatively painless. (special note - loading is significantly slower
>> if you leave reports open when closing the app. They will be loading on
>> re-opening the program which takes some time)
>>
>> As for reconciled transactions, they don’t ‘go away.’ But you can filter
>> your register views if you don’t want to see them. (or any transaction
>> before a certain date, say in the previous year)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>>
>>> On Mar 19, 2019, at 5:36 AM, garage cowboy <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi   - I am a new gnucash user  ( just a few weeks).
>>>
>>> First of all, congratulations and thanks to all those  who have
>> contributed
>>> to  this great product.
>>>
>>> My question is about EOFY processes   - I am used to products  which have
>>> an end of year rollover process which clears reconciled transactions   -
>> is
>>> there equivalent function in gnucash?  What is the recommended approach?
>>> am wondering  what will happen in a few years  when there are thousand of
>>> transactions in the xml  file.
>>>
>>> Also interested in contributing to the cause  but not a developer.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> GC
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>> -----
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

GnuCash - User mailing list
 Of course you can. Google "close books site:gnucash.org" and read up on the myriad opinions and issues that you might encounter. 

 
 
  On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 1:00, Philip Burg<[hidden email]> wrote:   I would like to close my books at the end of my financial year but have access to the previous years files, my thoughts were to archive the file at the end of the year by backing up to a cd/dvd then start afresh with the new financial year. would  this be possible. I am using windows 10 and Gnucash Version 3.4 Build I.D. 3.4+(2018-12-30)



Regards

Philip Burg





Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: gnucash-user <gnucash-user-bounces+philip_burg=[hidden email]> on behalf of Matthew Andrews <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 3:57:12 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Hi Adrien,

I just joined this list with the same question.  Great timing!  I like
your suggestion.  It seems easier than starting a completely new file,
importing the accounts tree, and entering any starting balances left
over from the previous year.

It took me a bit of time to figure out how to add a column to the chart
of accounts.  I found the answer in chapter 10 of the gnucash-guide.pdf,
in case anyone else is looking.  There's a little down arrow on the top
right corner of the accounts window that gives more display options.

Adding my thanks!


~Matthew



On 3/20/19 6:36 AM, garage cowboy wrote:

> Thanks for the reply -  and the helpful tips.
>
> regards,
>
> ALT
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 10:42 PM Adrien Monteleone <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Welcome to GnuCash!
>>
>> There is a ‘close books’ procedure you can use that zeros expenses and
>> income to equity as ‘retained earnings/losses’ but you don’t have to use
>> it. GnuCash does not require that you clear anything out at the end of the
>> year. (and doing so can impact your ability to run reports in some cases)
>>
>> There are people with 10+ years of data in very large files (with lots of
>> stock tracking) and other than some slow loading times, there aren’t any
>> major issues. (there are work arounds for the slow loading - somewhat)
>>
>> Some people do a close books and open a new file each year. But that
>> process requires archiving reports and the data files. It also means you
>> can’t run reports for multiple years without external help (like from a
>> spread sheet) or you can’t run reports that cross yearly boundaries. (say
>> from 4Q18 to 1Q19) And if you want to look at prior year(s) data, you have
>> to open each of those files separately.
>>
>> The Chart of Accounts tab has an available column for totals that show all
>> data in the entire book. (running totals from when you started using
>> GnuCash) It also has a column you can make visible for totals just for this
>> accounting period. (year) That way you can have an ‘at a glance’ view of
>> your accounts without running Income Statements or Balance Sheets. (but
>> those are available of course if you need them) The Summary Bar also shows
>> current net worth and retained earnings/losses.
>>
>> My personal workflow is to not use the close books procedure, make the
>> current period totals visible on the Accounts tab, as well as keep open a
>> YTD P&L, and a monthly P&L for last month and this month. I run Balance
>> Sheets as needed. I also never close GnuCash except for upgrades. Thus I
>> don’t experience the data file loading but a few times a year. And it is
>> still relatively painless. (special note - loading is significantly slower
>> if you leave reports open when closing the app. They will be loading on
>> re-opening the program which takes some time)
>>
>> As for reconciled transactions, they don’t ‘go away.’ But you can filter
>> your register views if you don’t want to see them. (or any transaction
>> before a certain date, say in the previous year)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>>
>>> On Mar 19, 2019, at 5:36 AM, garage cowboy <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi  - I am a new gnucash user  ( just a few weeks).
>>>
>>> First of all, congratulations and thanks to all those  who have
>> contributed
>>> to  this great product.
>>>
>>> My question is about EOFY processes  - I am used to products  which have
>>> an end of year rollover process which clears reconciled transactions  -
>> is
>>> there equivalent function in gnucash?  What is the recommended approach?
>>> am wondering  what will happen in a few years  when there are thousand of
>>> transactions in the xml  file.
>>>
>>> Also interested in contributing to the cause  but not a developer.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> GC
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>> -----
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Derek Atkins-3
In reply to this post by Philip Burg
Hi,

Philip Burg <[hidden email]> writes:

> I would like to close my books at the end of my financial year but
> have access to the previous years files, my thoughts were to archive
> the file at the end of the year by backing up to a cd/dvd then start
> afresh with the new financial year. would this be possible. I am using
> windows 10 and Gnucash Version 3.4 Build I.D. 3.4+(2018-12-30)

Archiving old books is always a good idea.

Restarting at the begining of the year, however, is not necessarily is
good idea.  Specifically, there is a Close Books feature that zero's out
your Income & Expense accounts into Equity, but it doesn't actually
DELETE any data.

Your other option is to Export the account tree which will create an
empty file and then re-open it.  The downside is that you will have to
reset all your opening balances, and if you use any business features
you will need to manually re-enter all that metadata too (customers,
vendors, tax tables, etc).  I highly ANTI-recommend this approach.

Personally, I don't do anything.  All the reports handle year-end
accounting without doing anything special.  I don't mind seeing my
income and expense account balances showing lifetime achievements :)
But that's just me.

Hope this helps,

> Regards
>
> Philip Burg
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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-derek

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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Christian Kluge
Am 21.03.2019 um 15:14 schrieb Derek Atkins:

> Hi,
>
> Philip Burg <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> I would like to close my books at the end of my financial year but
>> have access to the previous years files, my thoughts were to archive
>> the file at the end of the year by backing up to a cd/dvd then start
>> afresh with the new financial year. would this be possible. I am using
>> windows 10 and Gnucash Version 3.4 Build I.D. 3.4+(2018-12-30)
>
> Archiving old books is always a good idea.
>
> Restarting at the begining of the year, however, is not necessarily is
> good idea.  Specifically, there is a Close Books feature that zero's out
> your Income & Expense accounts into Equity, but it doesn't actually
> DELETE any data.
>
> Your other option is to Export the account tree which will create an
> empty file and then re-open it.  The downside is that you will have to
> reset all your opening balances, and if you use any business features
> you will need to manually re-enter all that metadata too (customers,
> vendors, tax tables, etc).  I highly ANTI-recommend this approach.
>

I don’t know how to say it, but I think GnuCash might be better off with
a balance carry over method into the next year.

At least for me in Germany I can’t think of someone accounting for more
than one year and also only on certain circumstances accounting for
another period than 01.01. to 31.12.

I don’t know whether it would be possible to have an option the gnucash
file for the previous year which would be used comparisson reports.

Is there a way to ex- and import the business related things?

If there were the scenario you’ve described would a bit cumbersome but
still doable.

Kind regards

Christian Kluge

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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Derek Atkins-3

On Thu, March 21, 2019 3:51 pm, Christian Kluge wrote:
[snip]
> I don’t know how to say it, but I think GnuCash might be better off with
> a balance carry over method into the next year.

Patches always welcome!  :)

> At least for me in Germany I can’t think of someone accounting for more
> than one year and also only on certain circumstances accounting for
> another period than 01.01. to 31.12.

Here in the US, organizations are free to set up any financial year they
wish.  Many still choose a calendar year, but certainly may are on a
skewed calendar.  Many choose June 30 for the end of the year.  I worked
one place that was Jan 31.

> I don’t know whether it would be possible to have an option the gnucash
> file for the previous year which would be used comparisson reports.

You would have to have GnuCash keep track of multiple files.
Search the code history for Gemini.  There was, at one point, an attempt
at doing this.  But really, searching across multiple files is not as
straightforward as you would think.

> Is there a way to ex- and import the business related things?

There is an importer; I do not believe there is an exporter.

> If there were the scenario you’ve described would a bit cumbersome but
> still doable.

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Liz
In reply to this post by Christian Kluge
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 20:51:00 +0100
Christian Kluge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don’t know how to say it, but I think GnuCash might be better off
> with a balance carry over method into the next year.
>
> At least for me in Germany I can’t think of someone accounting for
> more than one year and also only on certain circumstances accounting
> for another period than 01.01. to 31.12.
>
> I don’t know whether it would be possible to have an option the
> gnucash file for the previous year which would be used comparisson
> reports.

Sometimes it is better to ask the question than ask "where is this
solution?"

I think your question is
"Using a single file for accounts in Gnucash, how do you make a
comparison between different financial years?"

There is a way of using a multicolumn report to do this. I don't do it,
so I can't advise.
Did I get your question correct?

Liz
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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Christian Kluge
In reply to this post by Derek Atkins-3
Am 21.03.2019 um 21:00 schrieb Derek Atkins:

>
>> At least for me in Germany I can’t think of someone accounting for more
>> than one year and also only on certain circumstances accounting for
>> another period than 01.01. to 31.12.
>
> Here in the US, organizations are free to set up any financial year they
> wish.  Many still choose a calendar year, but certainly may are on a
> skewed calendar.  Many choose June 30 for the end of the year.  I worked
> one place that was Jan 31.
>

But still it’s just one year.

The certain circumstances I mentioned are mainly income tax related:

The financial for farmers ends at 30.06. and for forestry it can be 28.02.

A merchant according to German commercial law can choose a financial
year than the calendar year with approval from the tax office.

However if it’s just a small cash accounting business the financial year
is always the calendar year.

And all I’ve said about different financial years doesn’t apply for VAT
which is always reported for the calendar year, which complicates things
even further.

Kind regards

Christian Kluge
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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Adrien Monteleone-2
In reply to this post by Christian Kluge
I too worked for a company that had an odd fiscal year - starting Nov 1 because that’s when they incorporated. They ran for decades like that till I convinced them to do a short year filing and align to the calendar the following year.

Do you mean that GnuCash should require closing the books and carrying over the balances? I wouldn’t support that at all. This app isn’t just for official annual reports. Many people use reports for analyzing their financial info and sometimes it is very useful to run reports for odd periods. Certainly, I’ve seen enough people on this list talk about job-tracking features and needs where they might have activity they need to report on that spans multiple monthly periods (and even parts of those) and also crosses yearly boundaries. Forcing a close-book procedure is taking a physical limitation of paper and applying it where it doesn’t really need to be.

The act of ‘closing the books’ served the purpose of organization of paper journals, as well as generating the consolidated figures to prepare an Income Statement. But computers render both of those considerations obsolete. (you can prepare the statement without the intervening calculations manually since the computer can do it at any time, and organization is up to you. You don’t have to keep separate files if you don’t want to.) But some people still are more comfortable with that procedure, so they have that option.

Being able to export all business meta data however would be nice. (in a format GnuCash could re-import of course)

Regards,
Adrien

> On Mar 21, 2019, at 2:51 PM, Christian Kluge <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Am 21.03.2019 um 15:14 schrieb Derek Atkins:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Philip Burg <[hidden email]> writes:
>>
>>> I would like to close my books at the end of my financial year but
>>> have access to the previous years files, my thoughts were to archive
>>> the file at the end of the year by backing up to a cd/dvd then start
>>> afresh with the new financial year. would this be possible. I am using
>>> windows 10 and Gnucash Version 3.4 Build I.D. 3.4+(2018-12-30)
>>
>> Archiving old books is always a good idea.
>>
>> Restarting at the begining of the year, however, is not necessarily is
>> good idea.  Specifically, there is a Close Books feature that zero's out
>> your Income & Expense accounts into Equity, but it doesn't actually
>> DELETE any data.
>>
>> Your other option is to Export the account tree which will create an
>> empty file and then re-open it.  The downside is that you will have to
>> reset all your opening balances, and if you use any business features
>> you will need to manually re-enter all that metadata too (customers,
>> vendors, tax tables, etc).  I highly ANTI-recommend this approach.
>>
>
> I don’t know how to say it, but I think GnuCash might be better off with
> a balance carry over method into the next year.
>
> At least for me in Germany I can’t think of someone accounting for more
> than one year and also only on certain circumstances accounting for
> another period than 01.01. to 31.12.
>
> I don’t know whether it would be possible to have an option the gnucash
> file for the previous year which would be used comparisson reports.
>
> Is there a way to ex- and import the business related things?
>
> If there were the scenario you’ve described would a bit cumbersome but
> still doable.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Christian Kluge


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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Adrien Monteleone-2
In reply to this post by Liz
For now, the likely best method is exporting and using a spreadsheet for multi-period comparisons, though I seem to recall a proper multi-period report is in development.

The multi-column report could fit that bill, but as-is, repeats all of the account labels which makes things quite cluttered. There is also no way to see percentages or variances unless you use a spreadsheet. (or other reporting solution)

I find myself looking at odd periods and crossing yearly boundaries more often than I find myself comparing two monthly or annual periods. (though I need that too) If I had to close the books each year, I’d lose that ability, or at least it would be very cumbersome.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Mar 21, 2019, at 3:13 PM, Liz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 20:51:00 +0100
> Christian Kluge <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I don’t know how to say it, but I think GnuCash might be better off
>> with a balance carry over method into the next year.
>>
>> At least for me in Germany I can’t think of someone accounting for
>> more than one year and also only on certain circumstances accounting
>> for another period than 01.01. to 31.12.
>>
>> I don’t know whether it would be possible to have an option the
>> gnucash file for the previous year which would be used comparisson
>> reports.
>
> Sometimes it is better to ask the question than ask "where is this
> solution?"
>
> I think your question is
> "Using a single file for accounts in Gnucash, how do you make a
> comparison between different financial years?"
>
> There is a way of using a multicolumn report to do this. I don't do it,
> so I can't advise.
> Did I get your question correct?
>
> Liz


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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Derek Atkins-3
In reply to this post by Christian Kluge
Christian Kluge <[hidden email]> writes:

> Am 21.03.2019 um 21:00 schrieb Derek Atkins:
>>
>>> At least for me in Germany I can’t think of someone accounting for more
>>> than one year and also only on certain circumstances accounting for
>>> another period than 01.01. to 31.12.
>>
>> Here in the US, organizations are free to set up any financial year they
>> wish.  Many still choose a calendar year, but certainly may are on a
>> skewed calendar.  Many choose June 30 for the end of the year.  I worked
>> one place that was Jan 31.
>>
>
> But still it’s just one year.

I don't understand your point?  These are two orthogonal issues.

There is the issue of year start/end, and there is the issue of whether
to hold multiple years in a single data file.  You seemed to imply that
a calendar year was sufficient, and I was pointing out that no, it is
not.

This is completely separable from the other question of whether to have
separate files for each year.

> The certain circumstances I mentioned are mainly income tax related:
>
> The financial for farmers ends at 30.06. and for forestry it can be 28.02.
>
> A merchant according to German commercial law can choose a financial
> year than the calendar year with approval from the tax office.

Same here in the US.

> However if it’s just a small cash accounting business the financial year
> is always the calendar year.

"Never say never"  :)

> And all I’ve said about different financial years doesn’t apply for VAT
> which is always reported for the calendar year, which complicates things
> even further.

FUN!

> Kind regards
>
> Christian Kluge

-derek

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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Derek Atkins-3
In reply to this post by Adrien Monteleone-2
Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> writes:

> For now, the likely best method is exporting and using a spreadsheet
> for multi-period comparisons, though I seem to recall a proper
> multi-period report is in development.

I believe it has been committed to the repository already.  If not,
there is an open PR about it which implies it should be committed soon.

> The multi-column report could fit that bill, but as-is, repeats all of
> the account labels which makes things quite cluttered. There is also
> no way to see percentages or variances unless you use a
> spreadsheet. (or other reporting solution)

I agree that some things are best done outside GnuCash, but GnuCash can
certainly get you most of the way there.

> I find myself looking at odd periods and crossing yearly boundaries
> more often than I find myself comparing two monthly or annual
> periods. (though I need that too) If I had to close the books each
> year, I’d lose that ability, or at least it would be very cumbersome.

This would be much harder, I think, if you had separate data files.
Especially because GnuCash doesn't like having multiple files open
simultaneously.

> Regards,
> Adrien

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

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Re: [GNC] End of year rollover

Christopher Lam
It has not quite been merged in yet, but I see no further issue that I can
fix myself, so, I'll see about getting in for wider use and bug finding, in
an "experimental" submenu. It won't report unrealised gains though, too
difficult to hack it as it is.

On Fri., 22 Mar. 2019, 23:06 Derek Atkins, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> > For now, the likely best method is exporting and using a spreadsheet
> > for multi-period comparisons, though I seem to recall a proper
> > multi-period report is in development.
>
> I believe it has been committed to the repository already.  If not,
> there is an open PR about it which implies it should be committed soon.
>
> > The multi-column report could fit that bill, but as-is, repeats all of
> > the account labels which makes things quite cluttered. There is also
> > no way to see percentages or variances unless you use a
> > spreadsheet. (or other reporting solution)
>
> I agree that some things are best done outside GnuCash, but GnuCash can
> certainly get you most of the way there.
>
> > I find myself looking at odd periods and crossing yearly boundaries
> > more often than I find myself comparing two monthly or annual
> > periods. (though I need that too) If I had to close the books each
> > year, I’d lose that ability, or at least it would be very cumbersome.
>
> This would be much harder, I think, if you had separate data files.
> Especially because GnuCash doesn't like having multiple files open
> simultaneously.
>
> > Regards,
> > Adrien
>
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
> --
>        Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
>        [hidden email]             www.ihtfp.com
>        Computer and Internet Security Consultant
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