[GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

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[GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

GnuCash - User mailing list
Hi All, especially Adrian,

Here is what I have so far.

I have two accounts:
     "Little Visa", which is a Credit card account
     "Little Visa -- Expense", which is an expense account

Credit card charges I have entered into "LittleVisa" (transfer column)
as a "debit".  I get a corresponding "credit" in "little Visa--expense".

Payment go into "LittleVisa -- Expense" as a "debit".  I get
a corresponding "credit" in "LittleVisa".

Every entry I have found on my bank statement I have placed a "c"
for "checked" in the "R" column of "Little Visa".

I have about 15 entries

And will wonders ever cease, the "Balance" at the bottom is
correct!

Confusions:

1)  In "Transaction Journal", I have to assign each and every
     transaction to "little visa" and "Little Visa--expense".
     How do I make these two the default?

2)  In "Basic Journal", it shows everything as "LittleVisa -- Expense".
     The balance is still correct.   Why not "LittleVisa"?

3)  When I press the "reconcile" button, it asked me for the "statement
     date".  Is that the ending date on my bank statement?  If so,
     it changes the "ending balance" to some bizarre number not
     even close to the ending balance on the bank statement.  Why?

4)  If I try to enter a test charge, it goes into "Imbalance-USD".
     I can change it back, but why?

Many thanks,
-T




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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

Maf. King
Hi,

Answers inline below...

On Saturday, 13 April 2019 09:14:39 BST ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user wrote:

> Hi All, especially Adrian,
>
> Here is what I have so far.
>
> I have two accounts:
>      "Little Visa", which is a Credit card account
>      "Little Visa -- Expense", which is an expense account
>
> Credit card charges I have entered into "LittleVisa" (transfer column)
> as a "debit".  I get a corresponding "credit" in "little Visa--expense".
>
> Payment go into "LittleVisa -- Expense" as a "debit".  I get
> a corresponding "credit" in "LittleVisa".
>
> Every entry I have found on my bank statement I have placed a "c"
> for "checked" in the "R" column of "Little Visa".
>
> I have about 15 entries
>
> And will wonders ever cease, the "Balance" at the bottom is
> correct!
>
> Confusions:
>
> 1)  In "Transaction Journal", I have to assign each and every
>      transaction to "little visa" and "Little Visa--expense".
>      How do I make these two the default?

If you enter from the credit card account, that sets one "half" of the
transaction to LittleVisa.  OVer time, if you have repeat purchases with the
same description, GC will recall the "other" account.  EG eating again at
Joe's diner will auto-fill a template transaction and all you will need to do
is edit the sum of money.


>
> 2)  In "Basic Journal", it shows everything as "LittleVisa -- Expense".
>      The balance is still correct.   Why not "LittleVisa"?

Presumably, you are in the basic journal for LittleVisa. so the other account
is the expense half.  For your unusual use case, the other account is always
the same.  for must of the rest of us, the other account might be
Expenses:fuel or Expenses:Groceries etc.

>
> 3)  When I press the "reconcile" button, it asked me for the "statement
>      date".  Is that the ending date on my bank statement?  If so,
>      it changes the "ending balance" to some bizarre number not
>      even close to the ending balance on the bank statement.  Why?

Yes, date is the ending date shown on your statement.  GC auto computes what
is thinks the balance is at that date.  What GC thinks and what the bank think
won't always agree, due to bank processing times etc.  Just edit the end
balance to that of the statement, and all should be well in the end.

>
> 4)  If I try to enter a test charge, it goes into "Imbalance-USD".
>      I can change it back, but why?

Because you didn't set the "other account" to something?  GC *has* to balance
a transaction that is entered, so if the credits != debits, it puts an
imbalance line in - really it is gently saying that you've messed up and you
need to re-assign that txn.  in your use case it probably isn't important, and
you could put every txn to imbalance.

HTH,
Maf.


>
> Many thanks,
> -T






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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

Adrien Monteleone-2
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list


> On Apr 13, 2019, at 3:14 AM, ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi All, especially Adrian,
>
> Here is what I have so far.
>
> I have two accounts:
>    "Little Visa", which is a Credit card account
>    "Little Visa -- Expense", which is an expense account
>
> Credit card charges I have entered into "LittleVisa" (transfer column)
> as a "debit".  I get a corresponding "credit" in "little Visa--expense”.

Backwards. Charges should be credits to the credit card account and debits to the expense account.

>
> Payment go into "LittleVisa -- Expense" as a "debit".  I get
> a corresponding "credit" in "LittleVisa”.

Again, backwards. Reverse your debits and credits. Payments are a debit to the credit card account and credit to the asset account used to make the payment.

Also, you don’t want to make your payments go to the expense account. You aren’t paying the card with expenses, you’re paying it with an asset. (that account I mentioned in the other thread...)

Note, now that you can see what is going on, you can switch back to Basic View and informal labels if you prefer. (payment/charge instead of debit/credit)

Regards,
Adrien
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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

GnuCash - User mailing list
On 4/13/19 2:25 AM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

>
>
>> On Apr 13, 2019, at 3:14 AM, ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All, especially Adrian,
>>
>> Here is what I have so far.
>>
>> I have two accounts:
>>     "Little Visa", which is a Credit card account
>>     "Little Visa -- Expense", which is an expense account
>>
>> Credit card charges I have entered into "LittleVisa" (transfer column)
>> as a "debit".  I get a corresponding "credit" in "little Visa--expense”.
>
> Backwards. Charges should be credits to the credit card account and debits to the expense account.
>
>>
>> Payment go into "LittleVisa -- Expense" as a "debit".  I get
>> a corresponding "credit" in "LittleVisa”.
>
> Again, backwards. Reverse your debits and credits. Payments are a debit to the credit card account and credit to the asset account used to make the payment.
>
> Also, you don’t want to make your payments go to the expense account. You aren’t paying the card with expenses, you’re paying it with an asset. (that account I mentioned in the other thread...)
>
> Note, now that you can see what is going on, you can switch back to Basic View and informal labels if you prefer. (payment/charge instead of debit/credit)
>
> Regards,
> Adrien

Oh Geez,

I try to reverse the numbers and get all kinds of junk to Imbalance USD.
Is there a way to elegantly do this?




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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

David Cousens
Todd,

When you edit a register and change a debit entry to a credit entry for
example in the first line, the original transaction will have had an equal
credit entry corresponding to the original debit entry. After you edit the
first line younow have two credit entries for the transaction and no
corresponding debit entry until you change the second line. GnuCash
automatically balances the transaction so it creates a default debit entry
to the Imbalance account. If you continue and then edit the original credit
entry in the second line to make it a debit, the automatically calculated
correcting entry to the Imbalance account should change to zero again and
when you hit enter after correcting the second line.

This behavior is all described in the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts guide
and Help manual. You would really save yourself a lot of confusion if you
worked through some of the examples on how the registers function.

Chapter 6 of the Help manual
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-help/ch_Common_Trans_Ops.html
describes what is happening and why.

Whether to debit or credit an account in a transaction in an accounting
program may also not be what you expect from the everday experience with
bank statements etc.

The actual behavior of debits and credits on each type of account is
summarized below for each basic account type.

Asset accounts: Debits increase the account balance - credits decrease the
account balance;
Liability Accounts: Debits decrease the account balance  - credits increase
the account balance;
Equity Accounts: Debits decrease the account balance - credits increase the
account balance;
Income accounts: Debits decrease the account balance - credits increase the
account balance;
Expense accounts:Debits increase the account balance - credits decrease the
account balance;

this works like this because sum of the balances in the accounts of each
account type in double entry satisfy the followingrelationship:

Sum of Assets= Sum of of Liabilities + Sum of Equity +Sum of Income - Sum of
Expenses
and the requirement for each transaction that the Sum of the debit entries
equals the sum of the credit entries.

GnuCash strictly implements and enforces these requirements on accounts and
transactions which is why you get the apparently inexplicable behavior.

David Cousens



David Cousens



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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

Christian Kluge
Am 14.04.2019 um 02:14 schrieb David Cousens:

> Whether to debit or credit an account in a transaction in an accounting
> program may also not be what you expect from the everday experience with
> bank statements etc.
>

I just wanted to add the reason for this.

A bank statement is an extract from their accounting showing their point
of view.

So each debit for you is a credit for them and vice versa.

Kind regards

Christian Kluge

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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

GnuCash - User mailing list
On 4/13/19 5:31 PM, Christian Kluge wrote:

> Am 14.04.2019 um 02:14 schrieb David Cousens:
>
>> Whether to debit or credit an account in a transaction in an accounting
>> program may also not be what you expect from the everday experience with
>> bank statements etc.
>>
>
> I just wanted to add the reason for this.
>
> A bank statement is an extract from their accounting showing their point
> of view.
>
> So each debit for you is a credit for them and vice versa.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Christian Kluge

Okay!  Now I get it.  It is the Bank' statement, not mine.

Thank you!

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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

GnuCash - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
On 4/13/19 3:53 PM, ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user wrote:
> Oh Geez,
>
> I try to reverse the numbers and get all kinds of junk to Imbalance USD.
> Is there a way to elegantly do this?


I exported it to a CSV.   I found founbd columns:

     Amount With Sym
     Amount Num.

It it really easy to reverse their signs and write it back
out with Libre Office Calc

Is there a way to read it back in and overwrite what was there?

Many thanks,
-T


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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

David Carlson-4
ToddAndMargo,


On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 9:22 PM ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 4/13/19 3:53 PM, ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user wrote:
> > Oh Geez,
> >
> > I try to reverse the numbers and get all kinds of junk to Imbalance USD.
> > Is there a way to elegantly do this?
>
>
> I exported it to a CSV.   I found founbd columns:
>
>      Amount With Sym
>      Amount Num.
>
> It it really easy to reverse their signs and write it back
> out with Libre Office Calc
>
> Is there a way to read it back in and overwrite what was there?
>
> Many thanks,
> -T
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
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> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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> -----
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>

When editing a transaction in GnuCash it is easy and recommended to tab
from field to field in the transaction and change the text, signs or
amounts as desired, with the caveat that tabbing off the right end of a
line will trigger GnuCash to calculate a sum of the two values in the
credit and debit fields and place a positive value in one of the boxes.

Then you can continue through the transaction until all lines are as
desired.  To commit your completed edit press Return or Enter whatever it
is called on your keyboard.  GnuCash will then re-arrange the lines so all
the lines with positive values in the left box appear first, then lines
with positive values in the right box appear below.  If there are lines
with zeros the zeros disappear but the line remains with empty boxes in
between the other lines.  This is also when GnuCash adds lines called
Imbalance if all the lines do not add up to zero.  Once you get used to
that behavior it seems automatic and logical.

--
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

GnuCash - User mailing list
On 4/13/19 8:53 PM, David Carlson wrote:

> ToddAndMargo,
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 9:22 PM ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     On 4/13/19 3:53 PM, ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user wrote:
>      > Oh Geez,
>      >
>      >
>     I try to reverse the numbers and get all kinds of junk to Imbalance USD.
>      > Is there a way to elegantly do this?
>
>
>     I exported it to a CSV.   I found founbd columns:
>
>           Amount With Sym
>           Amount Num.
>
>     It it really easy to reverse their signs and write it back
>     out with Libre Office Calc
>
>     Is there a way to read it back in and overwrite what was there?
>
>     Many thanks,
>     -T
>
>
> When editing a transaction in GnuCash it is easy and recommended to tab
> from field to field in the transaction and change the text, signs or
> amounts as desired, with the caveat that tabbing off the right end of a
> line will trigger GnuCash to calculate a sum of the two values in the
> credit and debit fields and place a positive value in one of the boxes.
>
> Then you can continue through the transaction until all lines are as
> desired.  To commit your completed edit press Return or Enter whatever
> it is called on your keyboard.  GnuCash will then re-arrange the lines
> so all the lines with positive values in the left box appear first, then
> lines with positive values in the right box appear below.  If there are
> lines with zeros the zeros disappear but the line remains with empty
> boxes in between the other lines.  This is also when GnuCash adds lines
> called Imbalance if all the lines do not add up to zero.  Once you get
> used to that behavior it seems automatic and logical.
>
> --
> David Carlson

That explains a lot.  I had been pressing Enter on every block.


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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

Adrien Monteleone-2
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
I understand you don’t care for the official documentation, but how much frustration have you endured by not reading it and just trying to plow through? How many times have you asked for help or for understanding that would have been avoided by reading the manual?

Help Manual (https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=3&lang=C&doc=help, or p.56 in the PDF)
Chapter 6. Common Transaction Operations
6.2. Enter Transaction via register

"Note
When working on transactions in GnuCash, be aware that the Enter key and the Tab key behave differently, and perform different actions.

The Enter key moves to the first field of the next split, regardless of which field you are in. If there is no next split, proceeds to the next transaction. In any case, Enter finishes the transaction edit, and any imbalance is posted to Imbalance-CUR, where CUR is the currency of the transaction.

The Tab key moves to the next field in the current split. If it's the last field, moves to the next split, creating a new one if there isn't one. If the split is blank, the Tab key finishes the transaction and posts any imbalance to Imbalance-CUR, as above."

The rest of the section proceeds to explain, step by step, field by field, what to enter and how to do it unambiguously.

Regards,
Adrien

> On 4/14/19 12:16 AM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
>
> That explains a lot. I had been pressing Enter on every block.

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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

GnuCash - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GnuCash - User mailing list
This.

On April 14, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:

I understand you don’t care for the official documentation, but how much frustration have you endured by not reading it and just trying to plow through? How many times have you asked for help or for understanding that would have been avoided by reading the manual?

Help Manual (https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=3&lang=C&doc=help, or p.56 in the PDF)
Chapter 6. Common Transaction Operations
6.2. Enter Transaction via register

"Note
When working on transactions in GnuCash, be aware that the Enter key and the Tab key behave differently, and perform different actions.

The Enter key moves to the first field of the next split, regardless of which field you are in. If there is no next split, proceeds to the next transaction. In any case, Enter finishes the transaction edit, and any imbalance is posted to Imbalance-CUR, where CUR is the currency of the transaction.

The Tab key moves to the next field in the current split. If it's the last field, moves to the next split, creating a new one if there isn't one. If the split is blank, the Tab key finishes the transaction and posts any imbalance to Imbalance-CUR, as above."

The rest of the section proceeds to explain, step by step, field by field, what to enter and how to do it unambiguously.

Regards,
Adrien

> On 4/14/19 12:16 AM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
>
> That explains a lot. I had been pressing Enter on every block.

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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

GnuCash - User mailing list
On 04/13/2019 10:23 PM, D via gnucash-user wrote:

> This.
>
> On April 14, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I understand you don’t care for the official documentation, but how much frustration have you endured by not reading it and just trying to plow through? How many times have you asked for help or for understanding that would have been avoided by reading the manual?
>
> Help Manual (https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=3&lang=C&doc=help, or p.56 in the PDF)
> Chapter 6. Common Transaction Operations
> 6.2. Enter Transaction via register
>
> "Note
> When working on transactions in GnuCash, be aware that the Enter key and the Tab key behave differently, and perform different actions.
>
> The Enter key moves to the first field of the next split, regardless of which field you are in. If there is no next split, proceeds to the next transaction. In any case, Enter finishes the transaction edit, and any imbalance is posted to Imbalance-CUR, where CUR is the currency of the transaction.
>
> The Tab key moves to the next field in the current split. If it's the last field, moves to the next split, creating a new one if there isn't one. If the split is blank, the Tab key finishes the transaction and posts any imbalance to Imbalance-CUR, as above."
>
> The rest of the section proceeds to explain, step by step, field by field, what to enter and how to do it unambiguously.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
>> On 4/14/19 12:16 AM, ToddAndMargo wrote:
>>
>> That explains a lot. I had been pressing Enter on every block.

Hi Adrian,

I found a slick way of switching every thing around.

I set view to Auto Split Ledge, then I mouse clicked in the cell I
wanted to change and added a minus sign to each, then moved on to the
next line.  One hand on the mouse and one hand on the minus sign.
Worked beautifully!

After I was all done, I noticed the "Imbalanced USD" was still zero.
Boy did I not understand about tabs and mouse clicks.  Thank you!

You know GnuCash is way more complicated than I wanted, but with your
help, I seemed to hae been able to dumb it down to the point where I
can actually use it.  I think it may actually work out.  Thank you!

-T


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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

Maf. King
On Sunday, 14 April 2019 07:59:55 BST ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user wrote:

>
> Hi Adrian,
>
> I found a slick way of switching every thing around.
>

No, you stumbled onto the correct way to do it... as described in the docs.

Maf.




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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

GnuCash - User mailing list
On 04/14/2019 12:36 AM, Maf. King wrote:

> On Sunday, 14 April 2019 07:59:55 BST ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Adrian,
>>
>> I found a slick way of switching every thing around.
>>
>
> No, you stumbled onto the correct way to do it... as described in the docs.
>
> Maf.

The docs described the mouse and minus sign?  Can you give me a
link.  There must be a bunch of neat tips there!

:-)



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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

Maf. King
On Sunday, 14 April 2019 09:12:20 BST ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user wrote:

> > Maf.
>
> The docs described the mouse and minus sign?  Can you give me a
> link.  There must be a bunch of neat tips there!
>
> :-)
>

there are neat tricks documented all over the place.

https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-help/trans-edit.html

OK,  that link doesn't explicitly say "click in the number cell and press the
- key"  but one has to assume a certain level of computer savvy from a user
who has written a bespoke database system and is thinking of using a
spreadsheet rather than GC.

So GC permits you to click in a cell to edit it.  just like pretty much any
other box-based data entry program.

You've been told that you recorded a transfer of $15 between 2 accounts when
it should have been a transfer the  opposite way (ie -15)

If you are in basic ledger view, as Adrian had earlier suggested you try, what
is such a radical trick about clicking in the number field and pressing - to
swap the direction of the money flow?  ( Granted, If you are still  in GL view,
you have to "click & press" twice (once for each split) - though when every
purchase transaction is to the same expense account, GL or even auto-split
view seems overkill anyway, IMHO).

I think this level of editing a transaction is covered in the docs, assuming
you've entered a few transactions and somewhat got the hang of clicking around
in a new program's interface first.

$Flames > /dev/null
Maf


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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

GnuCash - User mailing list
On 4/14/19 4:33 AM, Maf. King wrote:

> On Sunday, 14 April 2019 09:12:20 BST ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user wrote:
>
>>> Maf.
>>
>> The docs described the mouse and minus sign?  Can you give me a
>> link.  There must be a bunch of neat tips there!
>>
>> :-)
>>
>
> there are neat tricks documented all over the place.
>
> https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-help/trans-edit.html
>
> OK,  that link doesn't explicitly say "click in the number cell and press the
> - key"  but one has to assume a certain level of computer savvy from a user
> who has written a bespoke database system and is thinking of using a
> spreadsheet rather than GC.
>
> So GC permits you to click in a cell to edit it.  just like pretty much any
> other box-based data entry program.
>
> You've been told that you recorded a transfer of $15 between 2 accounts when
> it should have been a transfer the  opposite way (ie -15)
>
> If you are in basic ledger view, as Adrian had earlier suggested you try, what
> is such a radical trick about clicking in the number field and pressing - to
> swap the direction of the money flow?  ( Granted, If you are still  in GL view,
> you have to "click & press" twice (once for each split) - though when every
> purchase transaction is to the same expense account, GL or even auto-split
> view seems overkill anyway, IMHO).
>
> I think this level of editing a transaction is covered in the docs, assuming
> you've entered a few transactions and somewhat got the hang of clicking around
> in a new program's interface first.
>
> $Flames > /dev/null
> Maf

Hi Maf,

Cool. Thank you!

I am finding that I like the View --> AutoSplit Ledger the best.

Just out of curiosity, did your have Bookkeeping / accounting
experience before starting with GnuCash?

-T

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Re: [GNC] Don't understand why I have what I have

Maf. King
On Sunday, 14 April 2019 23:40:03 BST ToddAndMargo via gnucash-user wrote:

> Hi Maf,
>
> Cool. Thank you!
>
> I am finding that I like the View --> AutoSplit Ledger the best.
>
> Just out of curiosity, did your have Bookkeeping / accounting
> experience before starting with GnuCash?
>


Hi Todd,

Never had any formal training for book keeping (just lots of practice!)  Been
using GC for around 15 or 16 years now, for businesses & personal, before that
some version of Quicken originally released for Win95.  (or possibly Win3.1)  
I must have a bit of an accountant's brain, though, cos I seemed to just "get"
double-entry accounting straight away when starting with GC - although I do
still struggle to remember which side is debit & credit in a transaction.
Doesn't really matter for entering data very often, cos if i get the
transaction backwards it is immediately obvious in the register.  It's only a
problem when posting on the list where there aren't existing transactions to
check against!  Gonna try and apply Cricketonebit's tip on friday in your
other thread about "liking" debits and "being sad" for credits, and see if
that helps.

I use double-line auto-split ledger view by preference, but since you say that
you're not bothered about the other accounts and everything is lumped
together, I'm not sure why you'd need to see the split detail - I'd have
thought that Basic ledger was more like what you originally wanted as a simple
account overview?

Maf.



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