[GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

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[GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Haim Roman
Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I have 2
questions about debit cards.

(1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit card
should be an Access account.  Is that correct?

(2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different expense
accounts).
But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a] Checking
to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
it.
Is that correct?

Thanks
_______________________________________________________________
Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

foxylady337
> On 28 Aug 2019, at 10:05, Haim Roman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I have 2
> questions about debit cards.
>
> (1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
> credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit card
> should be an Access account.  Is that correct?
>
> (2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
> stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different expense
> accounts).
> But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a] Checking
> to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
> The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
> it.
> Is that correct?
>
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________________________


Welcome to the GnuCash Community!

I record debit card transactions in the same way as I record online or cheque (check) payments through my current (checking) account. There is no intermediate transaction, the way you have with a credit card.

Michael

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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Colin Law
In reply to this post by Haim Roman
Is your debit card account a separate account at the bank, or is the
card just a way of taking money out of the chequeing acct?

Colin

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 at 09:58, Haim Roman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I have 2
> questions about debit cards.
>
> (1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
> credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit card
> should be an Access account.  Is that correct?
>
> (2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
> stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different expense
> accounts).
> But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a] Checking
> to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
> The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
> it.
> Is that correct?
>
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________________________
> Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Haim Roman
I get separate statements for the checking account & debit card.
On the checking account, it just notes that money was transferred to the
debit card.
It's the debit card statement that says to whom I paid.

In addition, sometimes the checking statment notes a *single *transfer to
the debit card that actually corresponds to *multiple *transactions on the
debit card statement.

I live in Israel.  Maybe debit cards work a bit differently in other
countries.
_______________________________________________________________
Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman



On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:28 PM Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is your debit card account a separate account at the bank, or is the
> card just a way of taking money out of the chequeing acct?
>
> Colin
>
> On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 at 09:58, Haim Roman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I
> have 2
> > questions about debit cards.
> >
> > (1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
> > credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit
> card
> > should be an Access account.  Is that correct?
> >
> > (2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
> > stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different expense
> > accounts).
> > But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a] Checking
> > to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
> > The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
> > it.
> > Is that correct?
> >
> > Thanks
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים
> רומן
> > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > -----
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Gary Holtum
In reply to this post by Haim Roman
A debit card is an asset.

You transfer $ from Checking or Savings to Debit card then to Expense acct.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: gnucash-user [mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+diamondhranchqh=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haim Roman
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:05 AM
To: Gnucash Users
Subject: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I have 2
questions about debit cards.

(1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit card
should be an Access account.  Is that correct?

(2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different expense
accounts).
But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a] Checking
to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
it.
Is that correct?

Thanks
_______________________________________________________________
Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Haim Roman
First of all, I want to thank everyone who has responded so far.  And those
might respond in the future.

*Gary*, did you mean that each use of a debit card involves *two
*transactions?
1st from checking/savings to debit card, and 2nd from debit card to
expense?

_______________________________________________________________
Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman



On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:02 PM Gary Holtum <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> A debit card is an asset.
>
> You transfer $ from Checking or Savings to Debit card then to Expense acct.
>
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnucash-user [mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+diamondhranchqh=
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haim Roman
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:05 AM
> To: Gnucash Users
> Subject: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards
>
> Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I have 2
> questions about debit cards.
>
> (1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
> credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit card
> should be an Access account.  Is that correct?
>
> (2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
> stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different expense
> accounts).
> But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a] Checking
> to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
> The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
> it.
> Is that correct?
>
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________________________
> Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Gary Holtum
First you need to fund the debit card. $ has to come from somewhere. Then you use the debit card to purchase many different things.

 

One transaction to fund card, then many transactions to expense acct’s when you use it.

 

Similar to what you do with a credit card. Use it many times then make one payment.

 

Gary

 

From: Haim Roman [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:15 AM
To: Gary Holtum
Cc: Gnucash Users
Subject: Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

 

First of all, I want to thank everyone who has responded so far.  And those might respond in the future.  

 

Gary, did you mean that each use of a debit card involves two transactions?  1st from checking/savings to debit card, and 2nd from debit card to expense?  




_______________________________________________________________
Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman

 

 

 

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:02 PM Gary Holtum <[hidden email]> wrote:

A debit card is an asset.

You transfer $ from Checking or Savings to Debit card then to Expense acct.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: gnucash-user [mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+diamondhranchqh <mailto:gnucash-user-bounces%2Bdiamondhranchqh> =[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haim Roman
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:05 AM
To: Gnucash Users
Subject: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I have 2
questions about debit cards.

(1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit card
should be an Access account.  Is that correct?

(2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different expense
accounts).
But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a] Checking
to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
it.
Is that correct?

Thanks
_______________________________________________________________
Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
_______________________________________________
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Haim Roman
Got it.  Seems obvious now ☺
Thanks
_______________________________________________________________
Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman



On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:27 PM Gary Holtum <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> First you need to fund the debit card. $ has to come from somewhere. Then
> you use the debit card to purchase many different things.
>
>
>
> One transaction to fund card, then many transactions to expense acct’s
> when you use it.
>
>
>
> Similar to what you do with a credit card. Use it many times then make one
> payment.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> *From:* Haim Roman [mailto:[hidden email]]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:15 AM
> *To:* Gary Holtum
> *Cc:* Gnucash Users
> *Subject:* Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards
>
>
>
> First of all, I want to thank everyone who has responded so far.  And
> those might respond in the future.
>
>
>
> *Gary*, did you mean that each use of a debit card involves *two *transactions?
> 1st from checking/savings to debit card, and 2nd from debit card to
> expense?
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
>
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:02 PM Gary Holtum <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> A debit card is an asset.
>
> You transfer $ from Checking or Savings to Debit card then to Expense acct.
>
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnucash-user [mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+diamondhranchqh=
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haim Roman
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:05 AM
> To: Gnucash Users
> Subject: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards
>
> Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I have 2
> questions about debit cards.
>
> (1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
> credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit card
> should be an Access account.  Is that correct?
>
> (2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
> stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different expense
> accounts).
> But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a] Checking
> to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
> The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
> it.
> Is that correct?
>
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________________________
> Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Mike or Penny Novack-4
In reply to this post by Haim Roman
On 8/28/2019 5:52 AM, Haim Roman wrote:

> I get separate statements for the checking account & debit card.
> On the checking account, it just notes that money was transferred to the
> debit card.
> It's the debit card statement that says to whom I paid.
>
> In addition, sometimes the checking statment notes a *single *transfer to
> the debit card that actually corresponds to *multiple *transactions on the
> debit card statement.
>
> I live in Israel.  Maybe debit cards work a bit differently in other
> countries.

I have a sneaky suspicion that "debit cards" are different in different
places.

THIS example seems very similar to "petty cash fund" except no need to
prefund (gets refreshed as needed by a transfer from  the supporting
account). If that refresh is always after, you COULD treat like a credit
card that was never used to borrow money << ie: a "30 day net" account >>

BTW -- that IS how Penny and I use our credit cards and also the
business credit cards of the orgs I keep books for. In other words,
although on the books as a liability, the balance is always paid in
full, no interest ever paid, no loan balances left outstanding << though
of course could show that way at the end of a reporting period >>

As for where to put an Israeli "debit card", could do either as an asset
or a liability << this is easier to see when you just think debits and
credits>>I I would decide that by the DATES the bank uses for the
"refresh" transfer transaction, is that before or after on the statement.

Michael D Novack
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Robert Heller
In reply to this post by Haim Roman
At Wed, 28 Aug 2019 15:39:43 +0300 Haim Roman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Got it.  Seems obvious now ☺

If it is a straight checking account debit card AND you are not concerned
about keeping separate track of checks, EFTs, and debit card use, you don't
really need a separate GnuCash "account" for the debit card.  I put all of the
checking account debit card uses in my checking account account, just without
a check number.  Ditto for EFTs and other direct payments (eg online banking
billpay or other sorts of transfers).  The only debit card I bother to have
its own account for is my PayPal debit card, since it can hold a balance of
its own.

> Thanks
> _______________________________________________________________
> Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:27 PM Gary Holtum <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > First you need to fund the debit card. $ has to come from somewhere. Then
> > you use the debit card to purchase many different things.
> >
> >
> >
> > One transaction to fund card, then many transactions to expense acct’s
> > when you use it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Similar to what you do with a credit card. Use it many times then make one
> > payment.
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Haim Roman [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:15 AM
> > *To:* Gary Holtum
> > *Cc:* Gnucash Users
> > *Subject:* Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards
> >
> >
> >
> > First of all, I want to thank everyone who has responded so far.  And
> > those might respond in the future.
> >
> >
> >
> > *Gary*, did you mean that each use of a debit card involves *two *transactions?
> > 1st from checking/savings to debit card, and 2nd from debit card to
> > expense?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
> >
> > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:02 PM Gary Holtum <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > A debit card is an asset.
> >
> > You transfer $ from Checking or Savings to Debit card then to Expense acct.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gnucash-user [mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+diamondhranchqh=
> > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haim Roman
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:05 AM
> > To: Gnucash Users
> > Subject: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards
> >
> > Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I have 2
> > questions about debit cards.
> >
> > (1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
> > credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit card
> > should be an Access account.  Is that correct?
> >
> > (2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
> > stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different expense
> > accounts).
> > But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a] Checking
> > to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
> > The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
> > it.
> > Is that correct?
> >
> > Thanks
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
> > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

foxylady337
In reply to this post by Gary Holtum
> On 28 Aug 2019, at 13:27, Gary Holtum <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> First you need to fund the debit card. $ has to come from somewhere. Then you use the debit card to purchase many different things.

Ah, this isn’t the way debit cards work in the UK - we can use debit cards in the same way as we use credit cards but our bank accounts are charged immediately for the former and not the latter.

>
>
> One transaction to fund card, then many transactions to expense acct’s when you use it.

This is what we’d call a prepaid card here, dependent on being topped up periodically. This would be regarded as a Current Asset by Gnucash.

>
>
>
> Similar to what you do with a credit card. Use it many times then make one payment.

Except that you have to pay in advance when you use a prepaid card.

Michael.
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Stephen M. Butler
In reply to this post by Haim Roman
Haim,

I'm in the US and here the debit card directly debits the checking
(asset) account.  From your description it appears that your debit card
acts more like a credit card but with automatic payments from checking
on some regular basis (perhaps daily).

Can you download the transactions from the debit account?  In that case,
I'd setup the debit account as a liability (just my preference -- might
depend on how the bank uses the debit/credit columns in the download). 
This should catch both your charges and your payments .

You would have one transaction per charge from debit to expenses.   Plus
one transaction per payment from checking to debit.

Depending on how you bank auto pays the debit card, that might end up
being two transactions per use of the debit card.  However, I thought
you mentioned that the bank sometimes combines multiple charges into a
single payment.

--Steve


On 8/28/19 5:14 AM, Haim Roman wrote:

> First of all, I want to thank everyone who has responded so far.  And those
> might respond in the future.
>
> *Gary*, did you mean that each use of a debit card involves *two
> *transactions?
> 1st from checking/savings to debit card, and 2nd from debit card to
> expense?
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:02 PM Gary Holtum <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> A debit card is an asset.
>>
>> You transfer $ from Checking or Savings to Debit card then to Expense acct.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gnucash-user [mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+diamondhranchqh=
>> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haim Roman
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:05 AM
>> To: Gnucash Users
>> Subject: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards
>>
>> Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I have 2
>> questions about debit cards.
>>
>> (1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
>> credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit card
>> should be an Access account.  Is that correct?
>>
>> (2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
>> stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different expense
>> accounts).
>> But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a] Checking
>> to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
>> The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
>> it.
>> Is that correct?
>>
>> Thanks
>> _______________________________________________________________
>> Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>> -----
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>>
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

David Carlson-4
Just to make this thread more interesting, here in the United States it is
possible to purchase rechargeable 'gift cards' that can be used like credit
cards to pay for things, and recharged at a bank or currency exchange to be
used again.  I think these are used by people who do not want to have a
bank account, but need a way to pay with 'plastic'.  As in some other
countries, there are now retail businesses appearing that do not accept
cash.

I would liken such a card to be an asset,

David Carlson

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 8:57 AM Stephen M. Butler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Haim,
>
> I'm in the US and here the debit card directly debits the checking
> (asset) account.  From your description it appears that your debit card
> acts more like a credit card but with automatic payments from checking
> on some regular basis (perhaps daily).
>
> Can you download the transactions from the debit account?  In that case,
> I'd setup the debit account as a liability (just my preference -- might
> depend on how the bank uses the debit/credit columns in the download).
> This should catch both your charges and your payments .
>
> You would have one transaction per charge from debit to expenses.   Plus
> one transaction per payment from checking to debit.
>
> Depending on how you bank auto pays the debit card, that might end up
> being two transactions per use of the debit card.  However, I thought
> you mentioned that the bank sometimes combines multiple charges into a
> single payment.
>
> --Steve
>
>
> On 8/28/19 5:14 AM, Haim Roman wrote:
> > First of all, I want to thank everyone who has responded so far.  And
> those
> > might respond in the future.
> >
> > *Gary*, did you mean that each use of a debit card involves *two
> > *transactions?
> > 1st from checking/savings to debit card, and 2nd from debit card to
> > expense?
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים
> רומן
> > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:02 PM Gary Holtum <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> A debit card is an asset.
> >>
> >> You transfer $ from Checking or Savings to Debit card then to Expense
> acct.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: gnucash-user [mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+diamondhranchqh=
> >> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haim Roman
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:05 AM
> >> To: Gnucash Users
> >> Subject: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards
> >>
> >> Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I
> have 2
> >> questions about debit cards.
> >>
> >> (1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
> >> credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit
> card
> >> should be an Access account.  Is that correct?
> >>
> >> (2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
> >> stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different
> expense
> >> accounts).
> >> But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a]
> Checking
> >> to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
> >> The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
> >> it.
> >> Is that correct?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> _______________________________________________________________
> >> Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים
> רומן
> >> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> gnucash-user mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> >> -----
> >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > -----
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
> --
> Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
> [hidden email]
> [hidden email]
> 253-350-0166
> -------------------------------------------
> GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
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> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Robert Heller
At Wed, 28 Aug 2019 09:21:47 -0500 David Carlson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Just to make this thread more interesting, here in the United States it is
> possible to purchase rechargeable 'gift cards' that can be used like credit
> cards to pay for things, and recharged at a bank or currency exchange to be
> used again.  I think these are used by people who do not want to have a
> bank account, but need a way to pay with 'plastic'.  As in some other
> countries, there are now retail businesses appearing that do not accept
> cash.

And UMass's photo IDs are also rechargeable debit cards (and can be using with
vending machines and dining commons around campus.  (It is not a
VISA/MasterCard branded card and can only be used on campus.)

>
> I would liken such a card to be an asset,
>
> David Carlson
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 8:57 AM Stephen M. Butler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Haim,
> >
> > I'm in the US and here the debit card directly debits the checking
> > (asset) account.  From your description it appears that your debit card
> > acts more like a credit card but with automatic payments from checking
> > on some regular basis (perhaps daily).
> >
> > Can you download the transactions from the debit account?  In that case,
> > I'd setup the debit account as a liability (just my preference -- might
> > depend on how the bank uses the debit/credit columns in the download).
> > This should catch both your charges and your payments .
> >
> > You would have one transaction per charge from debit to expenses.   Plus
> > one transaction per payment from checking to debit.
> >
> > Depending on how you bank auto pays the debit card, that might end up
> > being two transactions per use of the debit card.  However, I thought
> > you mentioned that the bank sometimes combines multiple charges into a
> > single payment.
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> >
> > On 8/28/19 5:14 AM, Haim Roman wrote:
> > > First of all, I want to thank everyone who has responded so far.  And
> > those
> > > might respond in the future.
> > >
> > > *Gary*, did you mean that each use of a debit card involves *two
> > > *transactions?
> > > 1st from checking/savings to debit card, and 2nd from debit card to
> > > expense?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________________
> > > Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים
> > רומן
> > > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:02 PM Gary Holtum <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> A debit card is an asset.
> > >>
> > >> You transfer $ from Checking or Savings to Debit card then to Expense
> > acct.
> > >>
> > >> Gary
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: gnucash-user [mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+diamondhranchqh=
> > >> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haim Roman
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:05 AM
> > >> To: Gnucash Users
> > >> Subject: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards
> > >>
> > >> Hi.  I'm new to GnuCash and to bookkeeping/accounting in general.  I
> > have 2
> > >> questions about debit cards.
> > >>
> > >> (1) I made my debit card account a Liability account, as I did with my
> > >> credit card accounts.  In the GnuCash archives, someone wrote a debit
> > card
> > >> should be an Access account.  Is that correct?
> > >>
> > >> (2) I envisioned debit card transactions as single transactions with 3
> > >> stages:  Checking to Debit Card to Expense (yes, I have different
> > expense
> > >> accounts).
> > >> But I'm beginning to think that it should be 2 transactions: [a]
> > Checking
> > >> to Debit Card, [b]  Debit Card to Expense.
> > >> The 1st deposits into the debit card account, and the 2nd withdraws from
> > >> it.
> > >> Is that correct?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> _______________________________________________________________
> > >> Howard (Haim) Roman -- [hidden email] -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים
> > רומן
> > >> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> gnucash-user mailing list
> > >> [hidden email]
> > >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> > >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > >> -----
> > >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > gnucash-user mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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> > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
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> > > -----
> > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
> > [hidden email]
> > [hidden email]
> > 253-350-0166
> > -------------------------------------------
> > GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
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>
>
--
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Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
[hidden email]       -- Webhosting Services
                   

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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Adam Funk-4
In reply to this post by David Carlson-4
Prepaid cards like that exist in the UK too.  You can also buy them
with foreign currency preloaded (I think they are called "travel money
cards" but ICBW.)


On 2019-08-28, David Carlson wrote:

> Just to make this thread more interesting, here in the United States it is
> possible to purchase rechargeable 'gift cards' that can be used like credit
> cards to pay for things, and recharged at a bank or currency exchange to be
> used again.  I think these are used by people who do not want to have a
> bank account, but need a way to pay with 'plastic'.  As in some other
> countries, there are now retail businesses appearing that do not accept
> cash.
>
> I would liken such a card to be an asset,
>
> David Carlson

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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Adrien Monteleone-2
In reply to this post by Haim Roman
Haim,

If the money is transferred in advance to the card, then the card is an asset and is a ‘pre-paid’ card similar to gift cards. (the fact that a credit card network like VISA might process the transaction isn’t relevant to this question)

If the money is drawn from checking to ‘pay’ for what you ’spent/charged’ on the card, then the card is a liability. Should something happen where that auto-payment doesn’t occur, you still owe the funds.

Be careful though, if the card was initially pre-funded and then subsequently topped off in the same amount of a purchase, that isn’t a liability payment. It is just fully funding the card back to the earlier level for ‘future’ use —thus, still a pre-paid card.

If the card is simply a way to draw funds out of checking without writing a paper check (like in the US and maybe some other locations), then there is no need for a separate account. (or separate transaction entries)

If the card truly is accounted for separately, and not just another means of access to the same account, (or maybe a segregation of funds in the same account) then you might want to create a separate asset account in GnuCash for tracking its balance and transfers/top-offs to it. (make it a sub-account of checking if it is a segregation of funds) Those transfers don’t need to happen each transaction. I would model the ‘real world’ transactions as they occur. That is, if you use the card 5 times in one day, but only one transfer happens for the sum of all of them, then just record that one actual transfer between checking and card. Don’t do it separately for each transaction. That way, if you have to research your GnuCash transaction history comparing to statements or online history, you’ll be matching up the same actual transactions rather than multiple ‘virtual’ ones. That process will go much smoother and faster. (and likely make it easier to spot a mistake)

However, by all means, speak to a local CPA (and your bank) for official advice. They’ll be more familiar with how the card functions, as well as your local laws, and can better advise you how to set up your books.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Aug 28, 2019 w35d240, at 4:52 AM, Haim Roman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I get separate statements for the checking account & debit card.
> On the checking account, it just notes that money was transferred to the
> debit card.
> It's the debit card statement that says to whom I paid.
>
> In addition, sometimes the checking statment notes a *single *transfer to
> the debit card that actually corresponds to *multiple *transactions on the
> debit card statement.
>
> I live in Israel.  Maybe debit cards work a bit differently in other
> countries.


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Re: [GNC] 2 Questions About Debit Cards

Adrien Monteleone-2
In reply to this post by David Carlson-4
Yes, just a ’stored value card’, an asset.

You already paid for it, so it is not a liability.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Aug 28, 2019 w35d240, at 9:21 AM, David Carlson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Just to make this thread more interesting, here in the United States it is
> possible to purchase rechargeable 'gift cards' that can be used like credit
> cards to pay for things, and recharged at a bank or currency exchange to be
> used again.  I think these are used by people who do not want to have a
> bank account, but need a way to pay with 'plastic'.  As in some other
> countries, there are now retail businesses appearing that do not accept
> cash.
>
> I would liken such a card to be an asset,
>
> David Carlson
>


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