[Fwd: Re: Bill Jacqmein 401K loan]

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[Fwd: Re: Bill Jacqmein 401K loan]

brydone@btinternet.com




[hidden email] wrote:
> Thanks Andrew,
>
>  I didn't realise, I'm new to Gnucash, and mailing lists,, and I,m just
> starting to take an interest.

simple mistake 401K or 401k?  actually, kinda funny eh?

>
> Although I used to be an accountant, an associate member of the
> Chartered Institute of Management Accountants, which has it's head
> office in London but has branches throughout a lot of the developing
> world, as well as in some developed parts of the world, in addition to
> Britain, the last time I did any book-keeping/accounts was about twenty
> years ago, and even then my activity was spent in running business
> accounts for small/medium sized businesses, and I had little to do with
> personal finance and retirement funds and stuff, and although I had
> another look at his problem it doesn't make much sense to me at all fom
> the point of view you mention, and so I'm afraid I can't help you there.
>
> The reason I'm looking at Gnucash, which I was able to get when I got
> the Mandriva distro, ( I don't even as yet know how to down load
> packages from the web, using even apt-get)
apt-get install <package-name>

to see packages available try

apt-cache search <regex> I think. man apt-get and man apt-cache. DOn't
have apt-cache? apt-get install apt-utils
is because I'm wanting to see
> if Gnucash is strong enough for a workable business, as opposed to
> personal package, and I started to put some accounts together a couple
> of days ago.

I use gnucash for my business -- 16 employees, 600,000 gross annually.
works great. many others on the list use it for business as well.

I like the general solid feel I have of the results, but
> putting in stuff has proved a problem for me on a number of fronts and I
> haven't worked out if it's because I've forgotten all about double entry
> book-keeping on a computer, or if there are small bugs, that prevent me
> from getting the results I expect, or if the input sytem has too many
> variables,

THere are bugs, no doubt, and there are usability issues. The code has
suffered from years of not-really-enough-developers. It is doing better
though and the G2 port will provide a solid improvement.

I don't for a start like the ability to put things in through
> the expense and income accounts, as in my previous incarnation, these
> were posted either from the cash book, or the sales ledger;

I don't see what the difference is. Its double-entry and each entry must
have a corresponding offset. The choice of which account to enter the
transaction is is immaterial really. And I can tell you that the code
doesn't distinguish. Obvously, though, its not very convenient to open
each expense account to enter a bunch of transactions that all balance
with the checking account... SO I think, that while it may not be SOP to
be able to enter from the expense account, from a convenience sake,
noone will do it...



I also can't
> get the "split" thing to work in the general ledger, it's a minor point
> for me that the thing is called "split", it's not an accounting term, at
> least not in Britain, and if you are aiming a bit higher than sole
> trader stuff you need to make it sound like a professional accounting
> system.

I thionk split is a hang-over from intuit users? There are preferences
for how the registers appear Edit->Preferences-> ... and you can change
how the splits act. (that is, how they are displayed).

>
> Because I want to have an accounting package I don't have to pay for, as
> they are all so incredibly, incredibly expensive, and if I feel like
> that there must be millions others who will have the same view,
> I'm keeping a journal of my problems and thoughts and it's my intention
> to after three months, when I have become fully articulate with the
> system, and also my accounting once again, to let you know what my
> results are.
>
> With regards the general idea of Open Source software, in the medium
> term, personally I'd like to see Gnucash become as well known and as
> practically useful as Quicken, something that I'd have to pay for and
> also works on Microsoft, because I think whilst Microsoft has worked a
> miracle for the cause of personal and and other desk-top computing, I
> think the world should have a well known alternative to that operating
> system and it's packages, particularly a free one to help the poor
> people, like me, and with Unix-like beginning to emerge from the fog of
> fear of change, your system seems to have the basics to build on,
> subject to what looks like some tweaking from my point of view, and
> ironing out a few bugs.
You will offend some people by making comparisons to QUicken ;) . And I
can confidently say that gnucash will NEVER be available for microsoft.
1) the developers are serious OSS guys and major linux gurus, 2) its a
massive project (I think like 250,000 lines of code?) and the port would
require serious money or serious man years of effort to get done, 3) the
developers are serious OSS guys ;) who use it personally and have no
motivation to switch to a proprietary OS. We've got some heavy hitters
on the project as well. After a while you'll start to see that these
guys are well emeshed in the OSS community.

>
> Obviously an awful lot of high quality thought and work has gone into it
> over the years and it looks as if it's just about to move up a gear,
> congratulations!!! and may it continue no matter what!
>
> Things I'd personally like to see as a minimum for the future, are
> monthly accounts, a budget , also with period capabilities, and I think
> these are being addressed, but I'd also like to see a weekly cash-flow
> of payments and receipts itemised with balance calculations, at both the
> personal and business level, which at the moment I do on a spreadsheet
> of my own, and also,
What specifically are you looking for in a cash-flow report that is not
already there? The reports are written in an extension language and are
"Easily" modified to suit your needs. If you can give good specs for a
new version of a report, its likely that someone around here will code
it or help you code it. provided of course, that they have an interest
in it as well...

  in the budget , I don't know if it has or has not,
> I'd like to see variances from actual expenditure compared against
> budget and the resultant difference put alongside these figures in a
> budget programme.

you could check out and build G2 and look at the budgeting parts. I've
not tried it yet, but I understand its pretty well along. The
functionalityt you're looking for may already be there...

>
> With these I think you have a minimal working set of accounts of
> interest to a small/medium sized business, my area of interest, though I
> understand you yourselves  haven't decided what area you should put your
> unpaid resources into next, whether it be aimed at the personal user or
> the business user, or whether you should split the two into two
> different packages. But getting back to business packages, to cover all
> practical basis,  for the emerging and ambitious businessman, integrated
> stock-control, ordering and sales processing , with an e-shop ordering
> system would then be  further enhancements, and with all of that I think
> you have a system that would more or less be of interest to any
> practical small/medium sized businesses, at least from my viewpoint.
I think you're right, though I don't see a fork in the project. The
functionality for business use is already somewhat implemented and is
constantly improving. In any event, I think that the target is basically
what the developers use it for. That is micro-small sized business and
personal stuff. I think you're talking about more enterprise stuff where
you're e-commerce site is tied in to the inventory control systen and
tied into the accounting package. There exists a database backend for
gnucash that has somewhat lanquished in the last little while, but I
think that is where you'll see the kinds of additions you're looking
for. Different modules can tie into the database and provide
functionallity. It's a big task and the developers a few and overworked.
don't expect anything like this soon without some major additions to the
developer team.

>
> They talk about further things like supply chain management and goodness
> knows what else, but to me these aren't things that  small /medium sized
> growing business can afford to spend too much time to get organised on,
> and besides, as I say, being out of the business world data processing
> environment, I haven't really a clue as to what is available at the
> moment, so maybe I'm wrong. I know there is GnuE, and I don't know what
> their plans are, but if they are similar to yours I don't see any harm
> in a little competition.

In my experience, inventory control and management is probably the most
important issue for businesses that carry inventory. There are few other
things over which you have as much control OR as much exposure. I've
been in restaurants or small shops that can't pay their ongoing bills
but have literelly 10's of thousands tied up in inventory -- enough to
last them months, yet still are ordering from suppliers every week to
maintain that inventory... ymmv.


>
> And so, from a personal long term point of view I'd like to see a
> package as I've outlined, and in addition,as it so happens when I'm on
> the subject of what bees I have in my bonnet at the moment, I'd like the
> Open Bsd crowd to get down of their, "it's only for me hobbyhorse" and
> put a solid desk-top, user friendly together, onto which Gnucash and
> other applications could be added, as I understand Open Bsd is the most
> secure of them all, and I've had enough inconvenience with the vile
> viral crowd to make me want to ensure as much as possible,I can never
> get attacked again.
>
> I noticed also you are needing a Logo. I have a friend who does
> cartooning and is a graphic artist, and exceptionally talented as well,
> and he'd like to have a go. However, it occured to me that there should
> really be some hook up subliminally or obviously, between the Logo and
> the name of the thing you are promoting to the emerging and ambitious
> business man, (if that's the way you want to go) and I'm not at all sure
> if the name "Gnucash" is heavyweight enough to make a confident and
> dynamic impression in the mind of a small business wanting to look at an
> Open Source accounting package, which has teeth, after all, cash in my
> mind means coins, instead of 1000's and whilst as I understand it, on
> starting out it was a personal finance orientated thing, that is coins
> orientated, if you want to step up a gear to help the cash strapped
> small businessmen all over the world, you need to have something a bit
> more heavy weight in my view, perhaps something like "Gnu Moneybag", or
> "Gnu Accountant" So I'm wondering, before he has a go, if there is a
> similar feel about the name within your what seems like small and
> tightly knit community of developers, and if so is there something a bit
> more solid, which I can let my friend play around with in his head till
> he comes up with a picture that will make the emerging, ambitious, and
> dynamic  businessman,have horns and claxons and bells go off in his
> head, and make him want to dive headlong at having a quick look at the
> "Gnu Moneybank", or the "Gnu Accountant" or something like that.
I doubt anyone is interested in a name change. Submit logo proposals and
see what happens. and besides, what is so heavyweight about "Quicken" or
"Quickbooks"? You are talking about the marketing of gnucash here and
while I agree gnucash needs to be marketed, there is too much other
stuff going on right now. The dev's are deep in the G2 port and that's
it. end of manpower. now if someone was willing to step in and help
market gnucash, I'm sure there would be takers.

>
> Just a thought, if you and the rest of your mottly bunch who are more
> than just playing around with it, are happy with Gnucash, then I shall
> inform the cartoonist that that is the name that must inspire him to
> great artistic enedeavours.
>
> This is probably more than what you were bargaining for from your
> e-mail, but whatever, thanks for getting me hooked to use it, I like the
> register look in particular, though as I say, I have a problem working
> it at the moment.
What exactly are the problems you're having? A lot of the issues I've
run across tend to be solved by preference setting or by a change in
mind-set ;)

phew, too much, gotta run. cheers

Andrew

ps. I'm not a developer here, but thanks for the compliment...

>
> A fan, obviously a writer, and finally a burnt-out management
> accountant.
>
> Douglas
>
>

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Re: [Fwd: Re: Bill Jacqmein 401K loan]

Derek Atkins
"[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> writes:

> I also can't
>> get the "split" thing to work in the general ledger, it's a minor point
>> for me that the thing is called "split", it's not an accounting term, at
>> least not in Britain, and if you are aiming a bit higher than sole
>> trader stuff you need to make it sound like a professional accounting
>> system.
>
> I thionk split is a hang-over from intuit users? There are preferences
> for how the registers appear Edit->Preferences-> ... and you can change
> how the splits act. (that is, how they are displayed).

The GL is already in a full split mode, so yes, the "split" button
doesn't do anything because you're already in a state where it will
show all the splits in the transaction.

> You will offend some people by making comparisons to QUicken ;) . And I
> can confidently say that gnucash will NEVER be available for microsoft.
> 1) the developers are serious OSS guys and major linux gurus, 2) its a
> massive project (I think like 250,000 lines of code?) and the port would
> require serious money or serious man years of effort to get done, 3) the
> developers are serious OSS guys ;) who use it personally and have no
> motivation to switch to a proprietary OS. We've got some heavy hitters
> on the project as well. After a while you'll start to see that these
> guys are well emeshed in the OSS community.

Actually, this isn't quite true.  I would be very happy to see a port
of gnucash to Windows.  However, I have no interest in doing this
myself, and none of the current developers care to do it either.  Yet
if some future developer showed up and sent in patches to port GnuCash
to Windows and offered to maintain the port, I would gladly support
them in their efforts.

I've said before and I will repeat it again: I'll happily commit
portable patches that enable gnucash to build on Windows as well as
the existing platforms.

> In my experience, inventory control and management is probably the most
> important issue for businesses that carry inventory. There are few other
> things over which you have as much control OR as much exposure. I've
> been in restaurants or small shops that can't pay their ongoing bills
> but have literelly 10's of thousands tied up in inventory -- enough to
> last them months, yet still are ordering from suppliers every week to
> maintain that inventory... ymmv.

I'm sort of split over whether inventory control & management or
payroll is the more important subsystem.

-derek
--
       Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
       [hidden email]                        PGP key available
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Re: [Fwd: Re: Bill Jacqmein 401K loan]

Andrew Sackville-West


Derek Atkins wrote:

> "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> Actually, this isn't quite true.  I would be very happy to see a port
> of gnucash to Windows.  However, I have no interest in doing this
> myself, and none of the current developers care to do it either.  Yet
> if some future developer showed up and sent in patches to port GnuCash
> to Windows and offered to maintain the port, I would gladly support
> them in their efforts.
>
> I've said before and I will repeat it again: I'll happily commit
> portable patches that enable gnucash to build on Windows as well as
> the existing platforms.

just me trying to be helpful to someone off list. My assumption (you
know what happens... poor uma thurmond) was just that... ;) I was always
under the impression, though that the effort to port over to redmond
land would be pretty massive and pretty unlikely.

>
>
>>In my experience, inventory control and management is probably the most
>>important issue for businesses that carry inventory. There are few other
>>things over which you have as much control OR as much exposure. I've
>>been in restaurants or small shops that can't pay their ongoing bills
>>but have literelly 10's of thousands tied up in inventory -- enough to
>>last them months, yet still are ordering from suppliers every week to
>>maintain that inventory... ymmv.
>
>
> I'm sort of split over whether inventory control & management or
> payroll is the more important subsystem.

Personally, as far as headaches go, payroll would be better. It probably
takes up more of my time and brainpower than anything else I do. But,
inventory control is probably more important from a business management
pov, if you have inventory that is. For me, there is no way I could do
inventory control in gnucash simply because my books are at the office
and my inventory is at the store... and my inventory (which comprises
liquor, beer and wine) is pretty fluid (pun intended) and could never be
handled by an accouting package. others will differ.
my .02

A
>
> -derek
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Liz
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Re: [Fwd: Re: Bill Jacqmein 401K loan]

Liz
In reply to this post by brydone@btinternet.com
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 01:41, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Because I want to have an accounting package I don't have to pay for, as
> > they are all so incredibly, incredibly expensive, and if I feel like
> > that there must be millions others who will have the same view,
> > I'm keeping a journal of my problems and thoughts and it's my intention
> > to after three months, when I have become fully articulate with the
> > system, and also my accounting once again, to let you know what my
> > results are.


the wiki would be a *good place* for this.
(the wiki has a new home, and I can't supply the address right now)
Liz

--
Q: How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Two, one to hold the giraffe, and the other to fill the bathtub
        with brightly colored machine tools.

        [Surrealist jokes just aren't my cup of fur.  Ed.]
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Liz
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Re: [Fwd: Re: Bill Jacqmein 401K loan]

Liz
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:14, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:

> On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 01:41, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > Because I want to have an accounting package I don't have to pay for,
> > > as they are all so incredibly, incredibly expensive, and if I feel like
> > > that there must be millions others who will have the same view, I'm
> > > keeping a journal of my problems and thoughts and it's my intention to
> > > after three months, when I have become fully articulate with the
> > > system, and also my accounting once again, to let you know what my
> > > results are.
>
> the wiki would be a *good place* for this.
> (the wiki has a new home, and I can't supply the address right now)
> Liz
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash
--
"Calling J-Man Kink.  Calling J-Man Kink.  Hash missile sighted, target
Los Angeles.  Disregard personal feelings about city and intercept."
-- The Firesign Theatre movie, _J-Men Forever_
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Re: [Fwd: Re: Bill Jacqmein 401K loan]

Tim Wunder (Lists)
In reply to this post by Liz
On Friday 30 December 2005 4:14 pm, someone claiming to be Elizabeth Dodd
wrote:

> On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 01:41, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > Because I want to have an accounting package I don't have to pay for,
> > > as they are all so incredibly, incredibly expensive, and if I feel like
> > > that there must be millions others who will have the same view, I'm
> > > keeping a journal of my problems and thoughts and it's my intention to
> > > after three months, when I have become fully articulate with the
> > > system, and also my accounting once again, to let you know what my
> > > results are.
>
> the wiki would be a *good place* for this.
> (the wiki has a new home, and I can't supply the address right now)
> Liz

http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki

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