E-guile link

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E-guile link

Derek Atkins
FYI, the e-guile link is back up:

http://woozle.org/~neale/repos/eguile/eguile.html

-derek
--
       Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
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Re: E-guile link

Brian Rose-2
Hi Derek,

> FYI, the e-guile link is back up:
>
> http://woozle.org/~neale/repos/eguile/eguile.html
I looked at it. It "appears" intuitive and nice to
use. However, how does that fit with
Josh Sled's simple roadmap explanation after G2? E.g.,

"We've been really focused on the G2 port and 2.0,
and intentionally
haven't talked with too much rigor about post-2.0,
at the same time
there's been a lot of discussion over the last
year or so, and I think
it breaks out like:
...
   - Scheme removal
...
- Fix modularity system
...." cut&pasted from
 
http://www.mail-archive.com/gnucash-devel@.../msg12143.html

Is Scheme/Guile staying in or going out? Would
e-guile be deleted within the year
and replaced?

Sincerely,
Brian

--
Contagious Design!
web . design . photo

Brian Rose .  web programmer
(604)-630-2426 . brianATcontagiousdesignDOTnet

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Re: E-guile link

Derek Atkins
IMNSHO, what Josh means is that the WAY gnucash uses guile needs to
be fixed, and the way that gnucash is so /dependent/ on guile needs
to be fixed.  Guile needs to be removed from the startup sequence.
Gnucash needs to depend LESS upon guile.

But I don't EVER see guile being /completely/ removed.  I definitely
do not believe that eguile would be ripped out in a year.

-derek

Quoting Brian Rose <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Derek,
>
>> FYI, the e-guile link is back up:
>>
>> http://woozle.org/~neale/repos/eguile/eguile.html
> I looked at it. It "appears" intuitive and nice to use. However, how
> does that fit with
> Josh Sled's simple roadmap explanation after G2? E.g.,
>
> "We've been really focused on the G2 port and 2.0, and intentionally
> haven't talked with too much rigor about post-2.0, at the same time
> there's been a lot of discussion over the last year or so, and I think
> it breaks out like:
> ...
>   - Scheme removal
> ...
> - Fix modularity system
> ...." cut&pasted from
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/gnucash-devel@.../msg12143.html
>
> Is Scheme/Guile staying in or going out? Would e-guile be deleted
> within the year
> and replaced?
>
> Sincerely,
> Brian
>
> --
> Contagious Design!
> web . design . photo
>
> Brian Rose .  web programmer
> (604)-630-2426 . brianATcontagiousdesignDOTnet
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>



--
       Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
       [hidden email]                        PGP key available

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Re: E-guile link

Josh Sled
In reply to this post by Brian Rose-2
On Tue, 2005-11-01 at 06:16 -0800, Brian Rose wrote:
> Is Scheme/Guile staying in or going out? Would
> e-guile be deleted within the year
> and replaced?

:)  Good question.  In my ideal world, we would remove it entirely and
find a different, light-weight templating system for the reports ...
something like Template-Toolkit.  At the same time, my list was my
opinion only. and a little rushed... others don't have quite the desire
for scheme-elimination that I do. :)

My major objection to the prevalence of scheme in gnucash is in other
locations than the reporting.  I could certainly see scheme being
removed everywhere *but* the templating of the reports via eguile.  As
well, we could have more than one mechanism for templating reports,
especially if the bulk of the reports were already in one technology.

I don't think there's a high probability of it being removed w/in a
year, were it to occur.

...jsled
--
http://asynchronous.org/ - `a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}`
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RE: E-guile link

Tracy Brown-2
RE: E-guile link

I have no opinion about using scheme or not for anything, but if there are folks who want to get rid of it; we can evaluate the use of XSLT as a templating engine. I've used it and it's okay but I suspect that eguile is much more flexible.

Tracy.


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] on behalf of Josh Sled
Sent: Tue 11/1/2005 7:43 AM
To: Brian Rose
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: E-guile link

On Tue, 2005-11-01 at 06:16 -0800, Brian Rose wrote:
> Is Scheme/Guile staying in or going out? Would
> e-guile be deleted within the year
> and replaced?

:)  Good question.  In my ideal world, we would remove it entirely and
find a different, light-weight templating system for the reports ...
something like Template-Toolkit.  At the same time, my list was my
opinion only. and a little rushed... others don't have quite the desire
for scheme-elimination that I do. :)

My major objection to the prevalence of scheme in gnucash is in other
locations than the reporting.  I could certainly see scheme being
removed everywhere *but* the templating of the reports via eguile.  As
well, we could have more than one mechanism for templating reports,
especially if the bulk of the reports were already in one technology.

I don't think there's a high probability of it being removed w/in a
year, were it to occur.

...jsled
--
http://asynchronous.org/ - `a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}`
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Re: E-guile link

Derek Atkins
Nah, might as well focus on eguile in the short term.

-derek

"Tracy Brown" <[hidden email]> writes:

> I have no opinion about using scheme or not for anything, but if there are
> folks who want to get rid of it; we can evaluate the use of XSLT as a
> templating engine. I've used it and it's okay but I suspect that eguile is
> much more flexible.
>
> Tracy.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] on behalf of Josh Sled
> Sent: Tue 11/1/2005 7:43 AM
> To: Brian Rose
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: E-guile link
>
> On Tue, 2005-11-01 at 06:16 -0800, Brian Rose wrote:
>> Is Scheme/Guile staying in or going out? Would
>> e-guile be deleted within the year
>> and replaced?
>
> :)  Good question.  In my ideal world, we would remove it entirely and
> find a different, light-weight templating system for the reports ...
> something like Template-Toolkit.  At the same time, my list was my
> opinion only. and a little rushed... others don't have quite the desire
> for scheme-elimination that I do. :)
>
> My major objection to the prevalence of scheme in gnucash is in other
> locations than the reporting.  I could certainly see scheme being
> removed everywhere *but* the templating of the reports via eguile.  As
> well, we could have more than one mechanism for templating reports,
> especially if the bulk of the reports were already in one technology.
>
> I don't think there's a high probability of it being removed w/in a
> year, were it to occur.
>
> ...jsled
> --
> http://asynchronous.org/ - `a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}`
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel

--
       Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
       [hidden email]                        PGP key available
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Re: E-guile link

Neil Williams-2
On Tuesday 01 November 2005 6:34 pm, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Nah, might as well focus on eguile in the short term.
>
> -derek
>
> "Tracy Brown" <[hidden email]> writes:
> > I have no opinion about using scheme or not for anything, but if there
> > are folks who want to get rid of it; we can evaluate the use of XSLT as a
> > templating engine. I've used it and it's okay but I suspect that eguile
> > is much more flexible.

You can always use XSLT for your own customised reports and if, once you have
G2 installed, you create XSL stylesheets for QSF that you think could be
useful to others, feel free to let me know.

--

Neil Williams
=============
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http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/


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RE: E-guile link

Karl Hegbloom
In reply to this post by Tracy Brown-2
On Tue, 2005-11-01 at 09:06 -0700, Tracy Brown wrote:
>
> I have no opinion about using scheme or not for anything, but if there
> are folks who want to get rid of it; we can evaluate the use of XSLT
> as a templating engine. I've used it and it's okay but I suspect that
> eguile is much more flexible.

I kind of like the Scheme language, myself.  It is the language of
choice for introductory computer programming.  Anyone who has not
studied:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTDP and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SICP

... is missing the bus and won't have a clue in class tomorrow.  The
opinion of the HTDP authors expressed in the foreword should be required
reading for all Computer Science and High School Mathematics educators.

I enjoy Scheme's simple syntax.  The problem with XSLT is all that < / "
= : > syntax, and the <open> </close> thing.  It's very cluttered
looking compared to the Scheme syntax.  It is harder to type due to all
of the extra characters you must remember to enter.  (Though a good
auto-completing editor mode does a lot toward alleviating that.)

If you really think about it at the level of the document structure
tree, XML and Scheme are very isomorphic.  TeXmacs has a thing where it
can show the document as a TeXmacs tree, as a Scheme file, or as an XML
file.  Theoretically, it is easily possible to write a program (maybe an
Emacs Lisp or Guile program) that reads a file written in Scheme syntax
and outputs a file in XSLT syntax.  It would be implemented with perhaps
a few reader-macros and an evaluator that outputs the XML rather than
executing program instructions.

You'd never have to worry about writing closing tags --- the closing
parenthesis would serve that purpose.  The indenting and nesting of the
Scheme editing mode in GNU Emacs coupled with the simplified, less
cluttered, syntax would make it much more readable, IMO.

If Guile is replaced in GnuCash, what will take it's place?  Parrot VM?
Certainly not a Java VM...  Dot-NET?  I'd favor the Parrot VM at this
point, I think.  That would allow, hypothetically, GnuCash programs to
be written in either Python or Perl6, and certainly a Scheme compiler
could be written for it as well if there is not already one out there.

--
Karl Hegbloom <[hidden email]>

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