Budget Reporting Issues

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Budget Reporting Issues

sunfish62
Hi,

In the course of trying to address shortfalls in documentation around reports, I began poking around in the various Budget reports and features, and I wanted some explanation on a number of points. Bear with me if I ask questions that are meaningless; I do not use the Budget features much, and probably don’t understand the original intent of the various reports. Add in the fact that I Am Not An Accountant, and you will further understand my questions.

By all means, if you know better what a report is meant to do, and can clue me in, it will help me write up accurate descriptions of the reports.

Generally, what is each report meant to do? The grouping includes:

Budget Balance Sheet
Budget Barchart
Budget Flow
Budget Income Statement
Budget Profit & Loss
Budget Report

I understand (somewhat) what these reports mean in a common sense, but what exactly are they meant to do in the context of a Budget? For example, a Balance Sheet provides a summary of all your accounts as of a certain date. But what does a Budget Balance Sheet report? The numbers I get match neither the budget numbers *nor* the actual numbers.

More generally, I believe that the data presented in the reports is derived from the budget, with the exception of of the Budget Report, which includes both Budget and Actual amounts. Is this right?

I have similar questions regarding the other reports in this grouping.

Which Budget?
Each of the reports under the Budget grouping automatically loads with a particular budget as its base. If a data file has more than one budget, however, it appears that the report automatically opens using the first listed budget. Wouldn’t it be more appropriate for these reports to open using the last accessed budget? Furthermore, there does not appear to be any way to sort the list of budgets; they are always stored newest to oldest. So whatever budget you created last, that’s the default budget for every report.

Which Information?
It would seem to me that any report that is based on a budget should only display accounts for which budget information has been provided. In my tests of a few of the budget reports, however, I have found that the various reports include different account sets. The Budget Balance Sheet and Budget Flow includes all accounts (and the Omit Zero Balance option on the Balance Sheet does not always work). The Budget Barchart includes some subset of accounts that I simply can’t fathom, I just know that it isn’t the budget. The Budget Income Statement and Budget Profit & Loss Statement are the same report; both include all accounts by default. Budget Report includes all accounts, and there is no way to show only accounts from the budget.

Before I start trying to write documentation for these reports, I’d like some input from folks who have used (or written) these reports to be sure I get an accurate description.

TIA,
David
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Re: Budget Reporting Issues

Wm...
Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:49:06
<[hidden email]>
David T. <[hidden email]> wrote...

>Hi,

In the course of trying to address shortfalls in documentation around
reports, I began poking around in the various Budget reports and
features, and I wanted some explanation on a number of points. Bear with
me if I ask questions that are meaningless; I do not use the Budget
features much, and probably don’t understand the original intent of
the various reports. Add in the fact that I Am Not An Accountant, and
you will further understand my questions.

By all means, if you know better what a report is meant to do, and can
clue me in, it will help me write up accurate descriptions of the
reports.

This exercise was done a few years ago. But I agree some of the
Budgeting remains opaque and needs another visit.

Before we get going which bit of Documentation are you looking at
changing? The Tutorial & Concepts, Help, both, something else?

Generally, what is each report meant to do? The grouping includes:

I'm sure many cultures have a similar tales but one is: "when asking an
old man directions to point B he may suggest you return to point A"

I suggest understanding the reports without understanding how the
Budgets themselves work will be time ill spent.


Budget Balance Sheet
Budget Barchart
Budget Flow
Budget Income Statement
Budget Profit & Loss
Budget Report


Fortunately in order to understand the Budgets you can get by with one
report: Budget Report (the one at the bottom of the list).


I understand (somewhat) what these reports mean in a common sense, but
what exactly are they meant to do in the context of a Budget? For
example, a Balance Sheet provides a summary of all your accounts as of a
certain date. But what does a Budget Balance Sheet report? The numbers I
get match neither the budget numbers *nor* the actual numbers.

Ah, you see, it depends on how you have set your Budget up

More generally, I believe that the data presented in the reports is
derived from the budget, with the exception of of the Budget Report,
which includes both Budget and Actual amounts. Is this right?

The Budget Report is key to understanding.

I have similar questions regarding the other reports in this grouping.

Which Budget?
Each of the reports under the Budget grouping automatically loads with a
particular budget as its base. If a data file has more than one budget,
however, it appears that the report automatically opens using the first
listed budget. Wouldn’t it be more appropriate for these reports to
open using the last accessed budget? Furthermore, there does not appear
to be any way to sort the list of budgets; they are always stored newest
to oldest. So whatever budget you created last, that’s the default
budget for every report.

File / Properties / Budgeting tab controls the default budget.  More
generally if you get a Budget report to do what you want or close to it,
hit "Save Report Configuration As"

Which Information?
It would seem to me that any report that is based on a budget should
only display accounts for which budget information has been provided. In
my tests of a few of the budget reports, however, I have found that the
various reports include different account sets. The Budget Balance Sheet
and Budget Flow includes all accounts (and the Omit Zero Balance option
on the Balance Sheet does not always work). The Budget Barchart includes
some subset of accounts that I simply can’t fathom, I just know that
it isn’t the budget. The Budget Income Statement and Budget Profit &
Loss Statement are the same report; both include all accounts by
default. Budget Report includes all accounts, and there is no way to
show only accounts from the budget.

Before I start trying to write documentation for these reports, I’d
like some input from folks who have used (or written) these reports to
be sure I get an accurate description.

OK, a month or so has passed and no-one else is playing.

I'm going to repeat something I said above for emphasis.  None of the
Budget Reports will make sense until the reader understands gnc Budgets,
to understand the reporting (very much after the event) only one report
is actually needed, the Budget Report.

I practice I give other people saved reports and tell them what to
change as it is a bugger to explain.  There is a lot of capability but#

   make budget <-- make sure that is what you want using
   Budget Report
   time passes
   *then* and *only* then
   start doing reports other than the Budget report
   chances are you won't actually need the others

I know you asked about the reports but you'll be doing the community a
service if you skipped the reports and described the budget function in
a way more people can understand.  I'm prepared to help as there is a
lot of useful stuff there but I'm not the best bottom up explainer.

Ask Q's and I'll answer may be one way to approach this.  If I have gaps
then it is a smaller set for others to fill.

I do think this is worth doing, BTW.

--
Wm...

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Re: Budget Reporting Issues

sunfish62
Wm,

Thank you for your reply.

As for specific points you make:

1) I am not sure the earlier exercise to which you refer. I do know that there is a longstanding bug requesting report documentation, and also that this bug has languished. Can you give me a better reference from which to work specifically on documenting the Budget Reports?

2) My intention is to improve the documentation for the reports, although whether this will end up in the Help file or the Guide is not certain at this point. My predilection is to put it in the Guide.

3) You state that the only report that is useful or necessary is the Budget Report; if that is true, perhaps we can shortcircuit the entire exercise by removing these other reports if they are truly not useful or used.

*** Can anyone else weigh in on these reports? Are they actually useful? Is anyone using them? If no one is using them, and they are not useful, perhaps they could be removed from the package, thus eliminating the entire documentation issue altogether.


4) Since you feel that understanding budgets will explain to me how the budget reports are intended to work, please tell me what I should understand about budgets in order to understand the reports. I freely admit that my undersanding of the budget features is superficial, but I do understand that they can establish predicted amounts for a user-selected set of accounts over a user-selected set of time periods. I also understand that the Budget Report allows me to view budget and actual data on an entire set of books for a given budget. Please tell me how to move from this point to a point where the *other* reports make sense. What specifically will help me understand these other reports?

5) Thank you for pointing out the default Budget option under File Properties. ***Could a developer please explain why there are GnuCash preferences filed in two different locations?*** I don’t understand how this could make sense.

6) Regarding saving custom reports, my point in this is to document the existing reports included with GnuCash; I am not interested in how to save a custom report. But thank you anyway.

David


> On Sep 26, 2015, at 7:26 PM, Wm... <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:49:06 <[hidden email]>
> David T. <[hidden email]> wrote...
>
>> Hi,
>
> In the course of trying to address shortfalls in documentation around reports, I began poking around in the various Budget reports and features, and I wanted some explanation on a number of points. Bear with me if I ask questions that are meaningless; I do not use the Budget features much, and probably don’t understand the original intent of the various reports. Add in the fact that I Am Not An Accountant, and you will further understand my questions.
>
> By all means, if you know better what a report is meant to do, and can clue me in, it will help me write up accurate descriptions of the reports.
>
> This exercise was done a few years ago. But I agree some of the Budgeting remains opaque and needs another visit.
>
> Before we get going which bit of Documentation are you looking at changing? The Tutorial & Concepts, Help, both, something else?
>
> Generally, what is each report meant to do? The grouping includes:
>
> I'm sure many cultures have a similar tales but one is: "when asking an old man directions to point B he may suggest you return to point A"
>
> I suggest understanding the reports without understanding how the Budgets themselves work will be time ill spent.
>
>
> Budget Balance Sheet
> Budget Barchart
> Budget Flow
> Budget Income Statement
> Budget Profit & Loss
> Budget Report
>
>
> Fortunately in order to understand the Budgets you can get by with one report: Budget Report (the one at the bottom of the list).
>
>
> I understand (somewhat) what these reports mean in a common sense, but what exactly are they meant to do in the context of a Budget? For example, a Balance Sheet provides a summary of all your accounts as of a certain date. But what does a Budget Balance Sheet report? The numbers I get match neither the budget numbers *nor* the actual numbers.
>
> Ah, you see, it depends on how you have set your Budget up
>
> More generally, I believe that the data presented in the reports is derived from the budget, with the exception of of the Budget Report, which includes both Budget and Actual amounts. Is this right?
>
> The Budget Report is key to understanding.
>
> I have similar questions regarding the other reports in this grouping.
>
> Which Budget?
> Each of the reports under the Budget grouping automatically loads with a particular budget as its base. If a data file has more than one budget, however, it appears that the report automatically opens using the first listed budget. Wouldn’t it be more appropriate for these reports to open using the last accessed budget? Furthermore, there does not appear to be any way to sort the list of budgets; they are always stored newest to oldest. So whatever budget you created last, that’s the default budget for every report.
>
> File / Properties / Budgeting tab controls the default budget.  More generally if you get a Budget report to do what you want or close to it, hit "Save Report Configuration As"
>
> Which Information?
> It would seem to me that any report that is based on a budget should only display accounts for which budget information has been provided. In my tests of a few of the budget reports, however, I have found that the various reports include different account sets. The Budget Balance Sheet and Budget Flow includes all accounts (and the Omit Zero Balance option on the Balance Sheet does not always work). The Budget Barchart includes some subset of accounts that I simply can’t fathom, I just know that it isn’t the budget. The Budget Income Statement and Budget Profit & Loss Statement are the same report; both include all accounts by default. Budget Report includes all accounts, and there is no way to show only accounts from the budget.
>
> Before I start trying to write documentation for these reports, I’d like some input from folks who have used (or written) these reports to be sure I get an accurate description.
>
> OK, a month or so has passed and no-one else is playing.
>
> I'm going to repeat something I said above for emphasis.  None of the Budget Reports will make sense until the reader understands gnc Budgets, to understand the reporting (very much after the event) only one report is actually needed, the Budget Report.
>
> I practice I give other people saved reports and tell them what to change as it is a bugger to explain.  There is a lot of capability but#
>
>  make budget <-- make sure that is what you want using
>  Budget Report
>  time passes
>  *then* and *only* then
>  start doing reports other than the Budget report
>  chances are you won't actually need the others
>
> I know you asked about the reports but you'll be doing the community a service if you skipped the reports and described the budget function in a way more people can understand.  I'm prepared to help as there is a lot of useful stuff there but I'm not the best bottom up explainer.
>
> Ask Q's and I'll answer may be one way to approach this.  If I have gaps then it is a smaller set for others to fill.
>
> I do think this is worth doing, BTW.
>
> --
> Wm...
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.


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Re: Budget Reporting Issues

Geert Janssens-4
On Sunday 27 September 2015 18:09:43 David T. wrote:
> 5) Thank you for pointing out the default Budget option under File
> Properties. ***Could a developer please explain why there are GnuCash
> preferences filed in two different locations?*** I don’t understand
> how this could make sense.
>
Yes, that I can do :)

The File Properties are settings that are for this particular book only. The Edit
Preferences are global settings which will apply to all books you would create. Many
users only have one book, so for them there's no real difference.

I realize this is confusing for some people. Thinking about it we should perhaps
move the menu option File->Properties to the Edit menu right below or above the
Preferences option and call it "Book Properties" ?

Regards,

Geert
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Re: Budget Reporting Issues

Wm...
Mon, 28 Sep 2015 09:26:56 <[hidden email]>
Geert Janssens <[hidden email]> wrote...

>On Sunday 27 September 2015 18:09:43 David T. wrote:
>> 5) Thank you for pointing out the default Budget option under File
>> Properties. ***Could a developer please explain why there are GnuCash
>> preferences filed in two different locations?*** I don’t understand
>> how this could make sense.
>>
>Yes, that I can do :)

The File Properties are settings that are for this particular book only.
The Edit
Preferences are global settings which will apply to all books you would
create. Many
users only have one book, so for them there's no real difference.

plus the Edit / Preferences are per user account if more than one person
uses the book (not at the same time), so I may have my dates yyyy-mm-dd
and a colleague dd-mm-yyyy

I realize this is confusing for some people. Thinking about it we should
perhaps
move the menu option File->Properties to the Edit menu right below or
above the
Preferences option and call it "Book Properties" ?

I certainly think it would be clearer if they were adjacent, "Book
Properties" is clear, how about "User Preferences" to make the
distinction really clear or would that be overkill?

Edit does seem more logical than File, also shouldn't File / Page Setup
be moved to Edit too, alongside Style Sheets?

--
Wm...

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Re: Budget Reporting Issues

Wm...
In reply to this post by sunfish62
Sun, 27 Sep 2015 18:09:43
<[hidden email]>
David T. <[hidden email]> wrote...

>Wm,

>Thank you for your reply.

>As for specific points you make:

>1) I am not sure the earlier exercise to which you refer. I do know
>that there is a longstanding bug requesting report documentation, and
>also that this bug has languished. Can you give me a better reference
>from which to work specifically on documenting the Budget Reports?


https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708267
Bug 708267 - Budget documentation is out of date
Robert Ratliff did most of the work c. Sep-Oct 2013
I helped a bit and Geert pressed the button at the end.

2) My intention is to improve the documentation for the reports,
although whether this will end up in the Help file or the Guide is not
certain at this point. My predilection is to put it in the Guide.

I certainly think the Guide is the document requiring more work in this
area.


3) You state that the only report that is useful or necessary is the
Budget Report; if that is true, perhaps we can shortcircuit the entire
exercise by removing these other reports if they are truly not useful or
used.

That isn't what I said (or at least wasn't what I meant).  A Budget and
the Budget Report are the keys to understanding how gnc's budgets work.

*** Can anyone else weigh in on these reports? Are they actually useful?
Is anyone using them? If no one is using them, and they are not useful,
perhaps they could be removed from the package, thus eliminating the
entire documentation issue altogether.

I wouldn't do that.  The main problem (I think) is that people don't
understand the Budgets so the reports never make sense.

4) Since you feel that understanding budgets will explain to me how the
budget reports are intended to work, please tell me what I should
understand about budgets in order to understand the reports. I freely
admit that my undersanding of the budget features is superficial, but I
do understand that they can establish predicted amounts for a
user-selected set of accounts over a user-selected set of time periods.
I also understand that the Budget Report allows me to view budget and
actual data on an entire set of books for a given budget. Please tell me
how to move from this point to a point where the *other* reports make
sense. What specifically will help me understand these other reports?

OK, maybe you already know this but in gnc any of the Budget Reports are
reports on a Budget.  If the Budget (a thing that once created exists in
your book with its own account structure) isn't right the reports are
going to appear wonky.  A gnc Budget is a static thing, it can be
changed as often as you like but it doesn't adjust automatically to
anything, it doesn't care about time, the fact that income changed,
nothing, unless you tell it.

People coming from other environments aren't always used to this,
particularly those using gnc for personal finance that might expect to
adjust next month because the fridge packed up last week.

gnc has a more formal Budgeting structure that I don't use for my
personal accounts but do use and find invaluable in non-profit orgs
where trustees set income and expense budgets and performance needs to
be measured against them.

So, to some extent, I think fuller documentation in the Guide will
involve the current Budgeting system's intended audience, possibly even
just warning people about what not to expect ... but maybe you already
understand that and it really is just the reports you are curious about.

The basic problem, really, is that personal budgeting is very different
to other kinds of budgeting and although gnc is excellent for personal
finance the extant budgeting isn't geared for that.

Roll on SQL as standard so the dev's can get on with functionality and
reporting is a user issue.


[snip 5 covered elsewhere in thread]

6) Regarding saving custom reports, my point in this is to document the
existing reports included with GnuCash; I am not interested in how to
save a custom report. But thank you anyway.


The problem with that is human's don't like having to do the same things
they did yesterday and the day before again today because they *didn't*
save the report once it was working and someone forgot to tell them.  An
example: most people / organisations do not budget for balance sheet
accounts, but the default reports include them.  Q: do you want to go
through the exercise of excluding them each time you run the report?

--
Wm...

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Re: Budget Reporting Issues

Wm...
In reply to this post by sunfish62
Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:49:06
<[hidden email]>
David T. <[hidden email]> wrote...

>Hi,

In the course of trying to address shortfalls in documentation around
reports, I began poking around in the various Budget reports and
features, and I wanted some explanation on a number of points. Bear with
me if I ask questions that are meaningless; I do not use the Budget
features much, and probably don’t understand the original intent of
the various reports. Add in the fact that I Am Not An Accountant, and
you will further understand my questions.


I am in a cycle of Budgeting and Reporting on Budgets between now and
early November, David T, so now would be a good time to ask for details.

I won't necessarily be using all of the Budget Reports naturally but
I'll have all of the Actions -> Budget stuff ready to hand and be using
most of the reports if not all of the options.

It would be easy for me to bounce my known Budgets against the various
Reports -> Budget as your curiosity takes you when doing the
documentation.

P.S. Have you been put off documenting this?  I wouldn't blame you.  I
think it is a progressive thing, each person does a bit.

--
Wm...

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Re: Budget Reporting Issues

sunfish62
Wm,

Your initial reply successfully convinced me that, since I am not using the budget reports myself, I should defer the documentation to someone who does. Feel free to write up documentation regarding the budget features, and how the specific reports are intended to be used. I have neither the time nor the mental bandwidth to manage it.

David

> On Oct 10, 2015, at 5:41 PM, Wm... <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:49:06 <[hidden email]>
> David T. <[hidden email]> wrote...
>
>> Hi,
>
> In the course of trying to address shortfalls in documentation around reports, I began poking around in the various Budget reports and features, and I wanted some explanation on a number of points. Bear with me if I ask questions that are meaningless; I do not use the Budget features much, and probably don’t understand the original intent of the various reports. Add in the fact that I Am Not An Accountant, and you will further understand my questions.
>
>
> I am in a cycle of Budgeting and Reporting on Budgets between now and early November, David T, so now would be a good time to ask for details.
>
> I won't necessarily be using all of the Budget Reports naturally but I'll have all of the Actions -> Budget stuff ready to hand and be using most of the reports if not all of the options.
>
> It would be easy for me to bounce my known Budgets against the various Reports -> Budget as your curiosity takes you when doing the documentation.
>
> P.S. Have you been put off documenting this?  I wouldn't blame you.  I think it is a progressive thing, each person does a bit.
>
> --
> Wm...
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Budget Reporting Issues and some small philosophy

Wm...
Sat, 10 Oct 2015 21:37:30
<[hidden email]>
David T. <[hidden email]> wrote...

>Your initial reply successfully convinced me that, since I am not using
>the budget reports myself, I should defer the documentation to someone
>who does. Feel free to write up documentation regarding the budget
>features, and how the specific reports are intended to be used. I have
>neither the time nor the mental bandwidth to manage it.

Where do you (or anyone else) think the main bit of documentation work
needs to be done?  Is it the Budgets themselves or the reports?  i.e.
where do you get stuck?

If someone says "I don't understand this bit" I'm happy to help but I'm
not a natural detailed-abstract-documenter and in the case of gnc
Budgets (and gnc reports in general) I'm not sure describing Report
Options is what is needed (or indeed generally useful in abstraction).

Time passes

I've been through

===
Tutorial & Concepts
   Managing Business Finances
     Budgets
===

and

===
Help Manual
   Windows & Menu Options Overview
     Budget Window
===

and I'm not seeing a lot wrong in the detail

*BUT*

it is just that these bits aren't joined up.

==========

I think the main issue is the joining up.  I don't know about other flox
but when I want *gnc* help I generally head for Tutorial & Concepts
before the Help Manual because that is where I have generally found what
I need.

Perhaps the problem is that the Budget documentation is split between
===
Tutorial & Concepts
*and*
Help Manual
===

Proposal: merge all the Budget documentation
i.e. everything referring to Actions / Budget & Reports / Budget
under Tutorial & Concepts and make bare bones references in the Help
Manual to the Tutorial & Concepts.

Motivation: gnc Budgets, such as they are, should be dealt with as a
whole, we don't expect the reader to find out about Investments and
related concepts and tools in more than one place, why should Budgets be
different?

Needed: thoughts from seniors and anyone else that cares about
effectively deleting a chunk from the Help Manual and moving it all to
Tutorials & Concepts.

Possible side benefit: by ripping the existing Budget documentation out
from everywhere and placing them firmly under
===
Tutorial & Concepts
   Managing Business Finances
===
a space is left for people to think about personal budgeting which is
quite a different thing for most or many people these days.

Thoughts, please.

--
Wm...

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Re: Budget Reporting Issues and some small philosophy

sunfish62
Wm,

There’s a long-standing bug (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633590 <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633590>) regarding report documentation, which resurfaced on the -devel list in the course of a discussion on import documentation (thread begins at http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2015-August/038934.html <http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2015-August/038934.html>). For the record, there was a good bit of discussion there by Geert and John about what the Guide and Help manual might each contain, and how they might be coordinated going forward. Your suggestions regarding the bigger picture might fit in with that discussion.

In addition, there is seemingly regular parade of users asking basic questions about both the use and intent of GnuCash’s reports.

All of this led to my resuming the process of documenting the reports included with GnuCash. The last action on 655390 back several years was an understanding that initial reports documentation would be placed in the Wiki until it was complete enough to be placed in the Guide. Taking a look at the wiki  (http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Using_GnuCash#Reports_Included_in_GnuCash <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Using_GnuCash#Reports_Included_in_GnuCash>) shows that there has been some work done in a number of Reports categories, but none in the Budget reports. I figured that would be a reasonable place to resume documentation, and began to test these reports out to determine their purpose and functionality—solely to improve the documentation of these reports. When I encountered troubles using the reports, I put out a general request for information to the user-list, in hopes of getting some explanation on these reports’ intended use and function.

You’ve twice now asked me to ask specific questions about these reports. OK, here goes.

Can you explain to me the underlying intent of the Budget Balance Sheet? What information does it report? What information is it supposed to report? I can’t figure out; the numbers returned don’t seem to match either one’s budgeted amounts, nor the actual amounts returned by a Balance Sheet.

Further, in theory, what information, precisely, would a “Budget Balance Sheet” even provide? Since a Balance Sheet is, by definition, a statement of balances on a given date, what is the correllating information in a budget? Moreover, if the Budget Balance Sheet is supposed to provide some figure as of a given date, why then doesn’t the report include an option to select that effective date (as the Budget Report does)?

David

> On Oct 12, 2015, at 6:21 PM, Wm... <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Sat, 10 Oct 2015 21:37:30 <[hidden email]>
> David T. <[hidden email]> wrote...
>
>> Your initial reply successfully convinced me that, since I am not using the budget reports myself, I should defer the documentation to someone who does. Feel free to write up documentation regarding the budget features, and how the specific reports are intended to be used. I have neither the time nor the mental bandwidth to manage it.
>
> Where do you (or anyone else) think the main bit of documentation work needs to be done?  Is it the Budgets themselves or the reports?  i.e. where do you get stuck?
>
> If someone says "I don't understand this bit" I'm happy to help but I'm not a natural detailed-abstract-documenter and in the case of gnc Budgets (and gnc reports in general) I'm not sure describing Report Options is what is needed (or indeed generally useful in abstraction).
>
> Time passes
>
> I've been through
>
> ===
> Tutorial & Concepts
>  Managing Business Finances
>    Budgets
> ===
>
> and
>
> ===
> Help Manual
>  Windows & Menu Options Overview
>    Budget Window
> ===
>
> and I'm not seeing a lot wrong in the detail
>
> *BUT*
>
> it is just that these bits aren't joined up.
>
> ==========
>
> I think the main issue is the joining up.  I don't know about other flox but when I want *gnc* help I generally head for Tutorial & Concepts before the Help Manual because that is where I have generally found what I need.
>
> Perhaps the problem is that the Budget documentation is split between
> ===
> Tutorial & Concepts
> *and*
> Help Manual
> ===
>
> Proposal: merge all the Budget documentation
> i.e. everything referring to Actions / Budget & Reports / Budget
> under Tutorial & Concepts and make bare bones references in the Help Manual to the Tutorial & Concepts.
>
> Motivation: gnc Budgets, such as they are, should be dealt with as a whole, we don't expect the reader to find out about Investments and related concepts and tools in more than one place, why should Budgets be different?
>
> Needed: thoughts from seniors and anyone else that cares about effectively deleting a chunk from the Help Manual and moving it all to Tutorials & Concepts.
>
> Possible side benefit: by ripping the existing Budget documentation out from everywhere and placing them firmly under
> ===
> Tutorial & Concepts
>  Managing Business Finances
> ===
> a space is left for people to think about personal budgeting which is quite a different thing for most or many people these days.
>
> Thoughts, please.
>
> --
> Wm...
>
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