Backend problem

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Re: Backend problem

David Carlson-4
I am still a little confused.  I think part of the trouble is that you are
not the person who has the problem.  First you talk about opening a file
that resides on a Windows 10 machine from a Ubuntu machine then you turn it
around and talk about opening a file that resides on an unknown machine
from a windows 10 machine and you still have not stated what file format
the data is stored in, which could be crucial to solving the problem
because AFIK Gnucash only throws a backend error when failing to open a
database file.

I can (and do) run GnuCash on a Windows 10 machine or on a Windows 7
machine or on a Ubuntu machine or on a Debian machine all working on the
same data file that is stored on yet another machine on my network which
has a different OS on it.

Chris is also trying to help, but neither of us is getting to the root of
your client's problem.

David C

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 6:57 PM, GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:

> might be as I do not use gnucash. The user will mount the drive (win 10)
> from Ubuntu and set permissions and log in. All the folders show and are an
> exact mirror from what is on the Ubuntu machine. There are other files-
> such as excel, word and from the Ubuntu machine they all open fine from the
> win 10 machine. Since he has used this on the ubuntu machine in normal
> operation, I assume he must have the database  engine on the ubuntu machine
> or it would not work? He is doing pretty much what you are doing except
> trying to open files from a win 10 machine. This is clearly experimental
> for him to see what he has to do for the future as well as the present.
>
> --- [hidden email] wrote:
>
> From: David Carlson <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Colin Law <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <
> [hidden email]>, [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Backend problem
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 18:01:52 -0600
>
> GatwickDP, Your answer is too vague for people here to help you.
>
> If the client is running GnuCash 2.6.11 in 32 bit Ubuntu 12.04 like I am,
> and the data file(s) are on a different machine on the LAN like mine are,
> it might be necessary to use the file browser to navigate to the LAN
> resource to log in to and mount that resource to find the desired file.
> Then double-clicking on that file will open it.  In my case, I use data
> files in the compressed XML format which has the file suffix .gnucash.  I
> think that it would work the same way if your client uses one of the
> database formats, but I am not sure because I do not use any of them.  The
> only other requirement would be to have the database engine installed in
> the Ubuntu computer.  If it does not work for your client, the problem may
> be in user technique rather than program capability.
>
> By the way, I am currently testing 64 bit Ubuntu 16.04 to see if it will
> work on the computer that currently has the 32 bit release 12.04 on it.  So
> far, the newer Ubuntu will run the programs that I use most frequently,
> albeit newer releases of many of them.  I doubt that the OS being 32 bit or
> 64 bit makes any difference to the vast majority of users.
>
> David C
>
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 5:31 PM, GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> any of the files that contain the data of accounts.
>
> --- [hidden email] wrote:
>
> From: Colin Law <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: "David T." <[hidden email]>,   "[hidden email]" <
> [hidden email]>, [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Backend problem
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 20:23:03 +0000
>
> On 23 January 2017 at 14:16, GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > This is for a client. His office is currently using ubantu. He would
> have liked to continue with ubantu, but with a 4 yr. lifespan that creates
> a problem that he does not want to deal with. Since he makes use of Power
> Term as well and powerterm along with tiny term is not creating future
> access for their product via the Linux or Mac route, that leaves him in a
> position to do a turnover to the horrid windows platform. This is the first
> of these machines that he is testing on what he normally does. In this case
> he wants to create a backup to a machine and if another one goes down then
> he can simply mount this one and go on as if nothing has happened. I
> understand this may be convoluted- however in his filed he has the largest
> medical practice in DFW and makes the most of any MD in his specialty in
> DFW and has about 55 computers spread over 3 offices and home. So since he
> will be moving slowly to Win 10 architecture- this is what he wants. So
> back to the question- the only scenario th
>  at
> >   Gnucash is not working correctly is when from a ubantu machine- you
> open gnucash and pull the files from the mounted win10 machine and get the
> the backend error message.
>
> Which files are you pulling from the windows machine?
>
> It is Ubuntu by the way.
>
> Colin
>
> >
> > --- [hidden email] wrote:
> >
> > From: "David T." <[hidden email]>
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Cc: "David Carlson-4 [via GnuCash]" <ml-node+s1415818n4689095h13@
> n4.nabble.com>, [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: Backend problem
>
> > Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 07:52:49 +0500
> >
> > Since it sounds as if you are trying to use your Win10 machine as a
> glorified backup storage location, as long as the file can be moved to a
> new machine and loaded, what does it matter if you can run it remotely from
> an ubuntu machine?
> >
> >
> >> On Jan 23, 2017, at 4:35 AM, GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>   I must be missing something in your suggestion. The original ubantu
> >>   computers that are being used have zero problems with opening any of
> >>   the gnucasf files on them, so apparently the database engine has to be
> >>   correct. Take any of the ubantu machines that have gnucah app on them
> >>   and they can open the files that are local to that machine or on
> >>   another networked ubantu or win xp machine. The exact same files are
> on
> >>   the win 10 machine and only on that machine does the attempt from a
> >>   networked ubantu trying to open the files on the win10  do we get the
> >>   backend error. The files have to be fine when as a test i open then
> >>   with an app native to win 10 and the win 10 app can open any of the
> >>   data files of gnucash on any of the other networked ubantu or winp
> >>   machines . The only problem is that I open gnucash on a ubanu computer
> >>   and by the network try to open the data files that are on win 10.
> Other
> >>   machines See everything fine on win 10 - any other file from any other
> >>   program will open. Only problem is the gnucash. We are trying to use
> >>   win10 as a mirror so that if one of the machines holding a number of
> >>   files and gnucash being only one set, we can just mount the drive from
> >>   win 10 and go down the road.
> >>   --- [hidden email] wrote:
> >>   From: "David Carlson-4 [via GnuCash]"
> >>   <[hidden email]>
> >>   To: Jazzwineman <[hidden email]>
> >>   Subject: Re: Backend problem
>
> >>   Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 15:11:41 -0800 (PST)
> >>   It sounds like you are keeping your data files in one of the database
> >>   formats but you did not install the database engine in the Ubuntu box
> >>   that
> >>   gives you the error message.
> >>   There is more than one way to solve that problem.  The easiest is to
> >>   switch
> >>   to the default compressed XML data format (.gnucash).   The other is
> to
> >>   install the correct database engine for your data type.  I have never
> >>   done
> >>   the latter myself and the wiki was just reorganized so I cannot find
> >>   the
> >>   reference to look at for instructions.  Hopefully someone who uses a
> >>   database format in Linux will tell us how to do that.
> >>   David C
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > http://www.britmail.net - The easy to remember, truly British email
> address
> > http://www.britstuff.net - your one stop portal for all things British
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > -----
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> http://www.britmail.net - The easy to remember, truly British email
> address
> http://www.britstuff.net - your one stop portal for all things British
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
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> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
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> address
> http://www.britstuff.net - your one stop portal for all things British
>
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Re: Backend problem

Plutocrat
I don't really understand the problem here either. But here are a few comments.

 - Ubuntu's four year limit. Don't understand this. You're not stuck to 14.04. You can upgrade at any time. Four years is when support stops, but upgrades are free. (Google Ubuntu Distribution Upgrade). Also, installing say 16.04 on a new box, and copying the /home/directory over to it usually works pretty well.

 - As far as I can see we're only talking about the data files. I don't think 32 bit vs 64 bit should make a difference to those. (correct me if I'm wrong). As long as you're backing up the data files, then sure, you've got all your data.

 - If the problem is to do with opening the files on a Windows drive mounted in Linux, check the directory permissions. Gnucash will need write permission as well, to create a lock file (as well as save changes) so perhaps it can't create the lock file? Start with "Everyone can read, write, delete files" and narrow it down from there.

P.
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Re: Backend problem

Jazzwineman
In reply to this post by David Carlson-4
as simply as I can make it- The program and files are on ubuntu. He is making a mirror to a win10 machine. On the ubuntu machine he mounts via terminal the networked drive from the win 10 machine that holds the exact same files as a mirror to the ubuntu machine. He attempts to open the data files from the win 10 machine with the gnucash program on a ubuntu machine- the backend error occurs.

This does not happen if ubuntu machine opens files from its local drive.
This does not happen if the ubantu machine attaches in the network to another ubuntu machine or the one win xp machine he has.

I tried and this was only a test from my part and does not indicate anything he will do- but purely a reverse test on my part and if too much info or confusing- forget this part. The win 10 machine will open with a win 10 program the mirrored gnucah files that were backed up to the machine. The win 10 machine will open gnucash files from a mapped-mounted ubuntu machine. The only thing that does not work is the ubuntu machine trying to open the data files stored a a mirror  on the win 10 machine. I do not know the format and will tomorrow, but in my humble view- if the files open under all other conditions, why would the format even make a difference. If giving you the name of the files somehow explains why the ubuntu machine gets a backend error  from open the files on win 10 then I will get every file name and post.

--- [hidden email] wrote:

From: David Carlson <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Colin Law <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Backend problem
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 20:36:01 -0600


I am still a little confused.  I think part of the trouble is that you are not the person who has the problem.  First you talk about opening a file that resides on a Windows 10 machine from a Ubuntu machine then you turn it around and talk about opening a file that resides on an unknown machine from a windows 10 machine and you still have not stated what file format the data is stored in, which could be crucial to solving the problem because AFIK Gnucash only throws a backend error when failing to open a database file.

I can (and do) run GnuCash on a Windows 10 machine or on a Windows 7 machine or on a Ubuntu machine or on a Debian machine all working on the same data file that is stored on yet another machine on my network which has a different OS on it. 
 
Chris is also trying to help, but neither of us is getting to the root of your client's problem.

David C

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 6:57 PM, GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:
might be as I do not use gnucash. The user will mount the drive (win 10) from Ubuntu and set permissions and log in. All the folders show and are an exact mirror from what is on the Ubuntu machine. There are other files- such as excel, word and from the Ubuntu machine they all open fine from the win 10 machine. Since he has used this on the ubuntu machine in normal operation, I assume he must have the database  engine on the ubuntu machine or it would not work? He is doing pretty much what you are doing except trying to open files from a win 10 machine. This is clearly experimental for him to see what he has to do for the future as well as the present.

--- [hidden email] wrote:

From: David Carlson <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Colin Law <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Backend problem
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 18:01:52 -0600

GatwickDP, Your answer is too vague for people here to help you. 

If the client is running GnuCash 2.6.11 in 32 bit Ubuntu 12.04 like I am, and the data file(s) are on a different machine on the LAN like mine are, it might be necessary to use the file browser to navigate to the LAN resource to log in to and mount that resource to find the desired file.  Then double-clicking on that file will open it.  In my case, I use data files in the compressed XML format which has the file suffix .gnucash.  I think that it would work the same way if your client uses one of the database formats, but I am not sure because I do not use any of them.  The only other requirement would be to have the database engine installed in the Ubuntu computer.  If it does not work for your client, the problem may be in user technique rather than program capability.

By the way, I am currently testing 64 bit Ubuntu 16.04 to see if it will work on the computer that currently has the 32 bit release 12.04 on it.  So far, the newer Ubuntu will run the programs that I use most frequently, albeit newer releases of many of them.  I doubt that the OS being 32 bit or 64 bit makes any difference to the vast majority of users.

David C

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 5:31 PM, GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:
any of the files that contain the data of accounts.

--- [hidden email] wrote:

From: Colin Law <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: "David T." <[hidden email]>,   "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Backend problem
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 20:23:03 +0000

On 23 January 2017 at 14:16, GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This is for a client. His office is currently using ubantu. He would have liked to continue with ubantu, but with a 4 yr. lifespan that creates a problem that he does not want to deal with. Since he makes use of Power Term as well and powerterm along with tiny term is not creating future access for their product via the Linux or Mac route, that leaves him in a position to do a turnover to the horrid windows platform. This is the first of these machines that he is testing on what he normally does. In this case he wants to create a backup to a machine and if another one goes down then he can simply mount this one and go on as if nothing has happened. I understand this may be convoluted- however in his filed he has the largest medical practice in DFW and makes the most of any MD in his specialty in DFW and has about 55 computers spread over 3 offices and home. So since he will be moving slowly to Win 10 architecture- this is what he wants. So back to the question- the only scenario th
 at
>   Gnucash is not working correctly is when from a ubantu machine- you open gnucash and pull the files from the mounted win10 machine and get the the backend error message.

Which files are you pulling from the windows machine?

It is Ubuntu by the way.

Colin

>
> --- [hidden email] wrote:
>
> From: "David T." <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: "David Carlson-4 [via GnuCash]" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Backend problem

> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 07:52:49 +0500
>
> Since it sounds as if you are trying to use your Win10 machine as a glorified backup storage location, as long as the file can be moved to a new machine and loaded, what does it matter if you can run it remotely from an ubuntu machine?
>
>
>> On Jan 23, 2017, at 4:35 AM, GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>   I must be missing something in your suggestion. The original ubantu
>>   computers that are being used have zero problems with opening any of
>>   the gnucasf files on them, so apparently the database engine has to be
>>   correct. Take any of the ubantu machines that have gnucah app on them
>>   and they can open the files that are local to that machine or on
>>   another networked ubantu or win xp machine. The exact same files are on
>>   the win 10 machine and only on that machine does the attempt from a
>>   networked ubantu trying to open the files on the win10  do we get the
>>   backend error. The files have to be fine when as a test i open then
>>   with an app native to win 10 and the win 10 app can open any of the
>>   data files of gnucash on any of the other networked ubantu or winp
>>   machines . The only problem is that I open gnucash on a ubanu computer
>>   and by the network try to open the data files that are on win 10. Other
>>   machines See everything fine on win 10 - any other file from any other
>>   program will open. Only problem is the gnucash. We are trying to use
>>   win10 as a mirror so that if one of the machines holding a number of
>>   files and gnucash being only one set, we can just mount the drive from
>>   win 10 and go down the road.
>>   --- [hidden email] wrote:
>>   From: "David Carlson-4 [via GnuCash]"
>>   <[hidden email]>
>>   To: Jazzwineman <[hidden email]>
>>   Subject: Re: Backend problem

>>   Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 15:11:41 -0800 (PST)
>>   It sounds like you are keeping your data files in one of the database
>>   formats but you did not install the database engine in the Ubuntu box
>>   that
>>   gives you the error message.
>>   There is more than one way to solve that problem.  The easiest is to
>>   switch
>>   to the default compressed XML data format (.gnucash).   The other is to
>>   install the correct database engine for your data type.  I have never
>>   done
>>   the latter myself and the wiki was just reorganized so I cannot find
>>   the
>>   reference to look at for instructions.  Hopefully someone who uses a
>>   database format in Linux will tell us how to do that.
>>   David C
>
>
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> http://www.britmail.net - The easy to remember, truly British email address
> http://www.britstuff.net - your one stop portal for all things British
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Re: Backend problem

Jazzwineman
In reply to this post by Jazzwineman
I do a rather high level of security work as a network eng on Windows networks. I generally do not work with linux and trying to assist a friend for something that not being a programmer- leaves me short. It is my understanding that after 4 years - one loses support on ubuntu versions and then you cannot update the browser or other things. Further there are issues with powerterm and tiny term not wanting to do programs for the newer version of ubuntu in 64 bit. I have tried to convince him to use other emulators, but he seems stuck relative to massive amounts of scripting tha has been created around powerterm.

So tell me what I should learn even though I currently manage some 8500 windows based computers?  It is very simple- why will a gnucash program running on ubuntu not open the files on a mounted drive on win 10 without a backend error. The file structure is an exact mirror of how they sit on the ubuntu machine.
--- [hidden email] wrote:

From: Liz <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Backend problem
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 09:11:38 +1100

On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 08:01:20 +1000
Dave H <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Whats with the Ubuntu 4 year end of life - I dual boot Win 10 and
> Ubuntu 16.04 and am not aware of any 4 year end of life.  Just
> assumed I'd keep upgrading every time they pump out a new version :-)

Ubuntu has long term support for 4 years on their LTS.

As DaveH notes, it isn 't an end of life.

Ubuntu can be upgraded.

I think there are a lot of things that GatwickDP needs to investigate
before worrying about transferring files for Gnucash.

Liz
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Re: Backend problem

Jazzwineman
In reply to this post by Jazzwineman
Liz- this makes much sense to me and I can accept. The one minor question relative- is that he has an old win xp machine that when he creates a mirror- that the gnucash files will open from a ubuntu box.

--- [hidden email] wrote:

From: Liz <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Backend problem
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 12:07:40 +1100

On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 16:57:08 -0800
GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All the folders show
>    and are an exact mirror from what is on the Ubuntu machine.

This is not possible, an "exact mirror". The windows file systems do
not have the ownerships and permissions of the ext4 or other filesystem
used in linux systems.

Often when something doesn't work in linux it's a permissions problem.

Bluntly, Win10 is not a solution to this person's problem. It opens up
huge problems, as the plan is to store a private database on what is
well reported to be a system which "calls home" repeatedly.

A commercial NAS box, or a home built one, would be a better solution.


Liz
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Re: Backend problem

Dave H
Can you give us the details of XP that works ok from a Ubuntu box - Win XP
Home, Professional, etc and is it also a 64 bit OS like Win 10 that fails ?

Cheers Dave H.


On 24 January 2017 at 15:38, GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Liz- this makes much sense to me and I can accept. The one minor question
> relative- is that he has an old win xp machine that when he creates a
> mirror- that the gnucash files will open from a ubuntu box.
>
> --- [hidden email] wrote:
>
> From: Liz <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Backend problem
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 12:07:40 +1100
>
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 16:57:08 -0800
> GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > All the folders show
> >    and are an exact mirror from what is on the Ubuntu machine.
>
> This is not possible, an "exact mirror". The windows file systems do
> not have the ownerships and permissions of the ext4 or other filesystem
> used in linux systems.
>
> Often when something doesn't work in linux it's a permissions problem.
>
> Bluntly, Win10 is not a solution to this person's problem. It opens up
> huge problems, as the plan is to store a private database on what is
> well reported to be a system which "calls home" repeatedly.
>
> A commercial NAS box, or a home built one, would be a better solution.
>
>
> Liz
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
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> address
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Re: Backend problem

Colin Law
In reply to this post by Liz
On 23 January 2017 at 22:11, Liz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 08:01:20 +1000
> Dave H <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Whats with the Ubuntu 4 year end of life - I dual boot Win 10 and
>> Ubuntu 16.04 and am not aware of any 4 year end of life.  Just
>> assumed I'd keep upgrading every time they pump out a new version :-)
>
> Ubuntu has long term support for 4 years on their LTS.

5 years actually on LTS
https://www.ubuntu.com/info/release-end-of-life
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Re: Backend problem

Colin Law
In reply to this post by Jazzwineman
On 24 January 2017 at 05:36, GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I do a rather high level of security work as a network eng on Windows networks. I generally do not work with linux and trying to assist a friend for something that not being a programmer- leaves me short. It is my understanding that after 4 years - one loses support on ubuntu versions and then you cannot update the browser or other things. Further there are issues with powerterm and tiny term not wanting to do programs for the newer version of ubuntu in 64 bit. I have tried to convince him to use other emulators, but he seems stuck relative to massive amounts of scripting tha has been created around powerterm.
>
> So tell me what I should learn even though I currently manage some 8500 windows based computers?  It is very simple- why will a gnucash program running on ubuntu not open the files on a mounted drive on win 10 without a backend error. The file structure is an exact mirror of how they sit on the ubuntu machine.

Since Gnucash does not have any knowledge of physically where the
files come from this cannot be a problem with GnuCash. It must mean
that the data getting to GC when the files are mounted on the Win
machine are not the same as when coming from a different source.
Therefore this is an issue with Ubuntu/Windows and mounting remote
data, not an issue with gnucash.  The first thing I would do is run a
compare on one of the data files mounted remotely and that mounted
locally.  Note that the only file you need to compare is the data file
(something.gnucash) that the user is opening when he does File > Open
in GC and browses to that file. I presume that this is what is being
done.

Colin
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Re: Backend problem

Jazzwineman
In reply to this post by Jazzwineman
Thank you that make big time sense.

--- [hidden email] wrote:

From: Colin Law <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Backend problem
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 11:24:54 +0000

On 24 January 2017 at 05:36, GatwickDP <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I do a rather high level of security work as a network eng on Windows networks. I generally do not work with linux and trying to assist a friend for something that not being a programmer- leaves me short. It is my understanding that after 4 years - one loses support on ubuntu versions and then you cannot update the browser or other things. Further there are issues with powerterm and tiny term not wanting to do programs for the newer version of ubuntu in 64 bit. I have tried to convince him to use other emulators, but he seems stuck relative to massive amounts of scripting tha has been created around powerterm.
>
> So tell me what I should learn even though I currently manage some 8500 windows based computers?  It is very simple- why will a gnucash program running on ubuntu not open the files on a mounted drive on win 10 without a backend error. The file structure is an exact mirror of how they sit on the ubuntu machine.

Since Gnucash does not have any knowledge of physically where the
files come from this cannot be a problem with GnuCash. It must mean
that the data getting to GC when the files are mounted on the Win
machine are not the same as when coming from a different source.
Therefore this is an issue with Ubuntu/Windows and mounting remote
data, not an issue with gnucash.  The first thing I would do is run a
compare on one of the data files mounted remotely and that mounted
locally.  Note that the only file you need to compare is the data file
(something.gnucash) that the user is opening when he does File > Open
in GC and browses to that file. I presume that this is what is being
done.

Colin




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Re: Backend problem

Adrien Monteleone
In reply to this post by Jazzwineman
First, I will second Liz’s suggestion that the problem is most likely something to do with permissions. I will also second her suggestion that your file server should be a linux/BSD or similarly based NAS, not Windows 10.

On the permissions issue, I had a client decide to go for dual boot on a laptop because no matter how hard we tried, PhotoShop wouldn’t play nice in a win7 VM on Ubuntu. (It did work fine save for a few annoying minor inconveniences with two tools dealing with keyboard mapping, and the fact that a VM can’t expose the graphics hardware directly, which was not very robust in the first place on a $400 laptop) So I set up a shared partition to hold all of his images so he could access them from Windows or Linux. Unfortunately, Windows 8.1 ‘did something’ after the first time I accessed the partition so it would not mount properly at boot under Linux. (Bad superblock errors every time) I was never able to solve it. He has to click-mount the drive in Nautilus every time he runs a fresh session. It does mount and the files are accessible, but Linux doesn’t like whatever Windows 8 did to it. Incidentally, now he rarely even uses Windows for PhotoShop on that laptop and just uses his desktop instead.

I had another client that had piles of grief accessing files stored on a laptop he opted to ‘free upgrade’ to Win10. He was trying to access them from a Windows 7 laptop. This one was a 2-way roadblock. Neither machine could play nice and share files to the other. (I think Win7 was trying, it was Win10 that didn’t like it’s older brother) I’m sorry I don’t recall where the setting was, but I had to change a Win10 access control setting to get it to work properly again. Maybe that will point you in a productive direction.

On the file server side, I’ve converted a small business network from XP to Ubuntu. (about 11 machines) The first thing I did was change the files from being served by Windows to Linux, initially via Samba. I also networked all printers. (printing to shared USB printers connected to Windows boxes leads to no end of grief) That solved about 75% of all previous issues. A remaining 20% was solved by moving all of their desktops which had a propriety Windows only point of sale system, to VirtualBox VMs. I had every box running Ubuntu desktops that mounted NFS shares from the server at boot, then shared those directories to the VMs. Worked like a charm. I would have eventually massaged the POS app to work under Wine, but instead, I’m going to write them something custom that will address the remaining 5% of headaches that are a result of a poorly written and conceived app.

Has your client tested running the terminal emulators under Wine/Crossover? Were VMs considered for those apps?

Furthermore, I see your client is concerned with support cycles. As for Ubuntu vs. Win10, does he know Win10 only has support for 18 months?

Ubuntu issues releases every 6 months. Those have support for 18 months. Every 24 months, they issue a Long Term Support (LTS) release that they commit to supporting for 5 years. This doesn’t mean end of life. The software doesn’t stop working. And indeed, some software will still be updatable on it and someone usually compiles backports for a spell of the most popular apps. However, you won’t receive security patches after that 5 years. Ubuntu offers LTS > LTS upgrade paths. I’ve already used it twice with zero issues on multiple machines. (once from 12.04 > 14.04 and again from 14.04 > 16.04, I’ve even done more critical boxes from 12.04 > 16.04 at once albeit in two steps) Certainly, it is trivial to script application installation and configuration if you even wanted to fresh install the upgrades. My current server plan is to use 16.04 until support ends in April 2021, then upgrade to a more seasoned 20.04 and use that till April 2025, upgrade to 24.04 etc. I’ll be jumping two LTS versions every four years, but always to the latest version which has already had two rounds of point release bug fixes.

If your client switches to Windows 10, they will have to upgrade every 18 months. As it is, the first Windows 10 release (the free one) is already out of support. They planned for a 4 month release cycle with a 12 month!! support commitment, but they found that was ambitious. Their current paces is a 6-7 month release cycle and 18 months of support. They support 2 versions at a time, the most recent and the previous. Canonical supports up to 3 LTS versions over their 5 year span, along with 2-3 intervening regular releases. (12.04 just lost support when 17.04 came out, when 16.04 was released there were 3 LTS versions being supported, presently they support 14.04LTS, 16.04LTS, 16.10 and 17.04, and will still support all of these when 17.10 comes out)

Also, I went to the PowerTerm and TinyTerm websites and I can’t find any indication they are not going to support Linux further. They both still offer their linux (and Mac) versions and TinyTerm even still supports 32 bit linux distros. (and quite a number of distros overall)

Again, even if they stop ‘supporting’ the apps, that doesn’t mean they will cease to function. We’re talking terminal emulators here. I see from the PowerTerm version history they didn’t have any updates between 2006 and 2016, and then that latest one was for some font changes and to support newer SSH servers. Your client could be dealing with very mature software that simply doesn’t require constant development.

The bottom line is I don’t think this is a GnuCash issue. It’s an issue created by changes in Windows Access Control policy introduced in Windows 10, which your client exposed themselves to based on a possible misunderstanding of software support cycles. It’s your client, but If I had someone who liked Ubuntu and wanted to stay there, I’d suggest other approaches to deal with the support issues. This route doesn’t seem to be working.


> On Jan 24, 2017, at 11:00 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> From: GatwickDP <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Subject: Re: Backend problem
> Date: January 23, 2017 at 11:38:58 PM CST
> To: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Cc: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Reply-To: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>
> Liz- this makes much sense to me and I can accept. The one minor question relative- is that he has an old win xp machine that when he creates a mirror- that the gnucash files will open from a ubuntu box.
>
> --- [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: Liz <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Backend problem
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 12:07:40 +1100
>
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 16:57:08 -0800
> GatwickDP <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>> All the folders show
>>   and are an exact mirror from what is on the Ubuntu machine.
>
> This is not possible, an "exact mirror". The windows file systems do
> not have the ownerships and permissions of the ext4 or other filesystem
> used in linux systems.
>
> Often when something doesn't work in linux it's a permissions problem.
>
> Bluntly, Win10 is not a solution to this person's problem. It opens up
> huge problems, as the plan is to store a private database on what is
> well reported to be a system which "calls home" repeatedly.
>
> A commercial NAS box, or a home built one, would be a better solution.
>
>
> Liz

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Re: Backend problem

Edward Doolittle
On 25 January 2017 at 15:56, Adrien Monteleone <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Ubuntu issues releases every 6 months. Those have support for 18 months.
> Every 24 months, they issue a Long Term Support (LTS) release that they
> commit to supporting for 5 years. This doesn’t mean end of life. The
> software doesn’t stop working. And indeed, some software will still be
> updatable on it and someone usually compiles backports for a spell of the
> most popular apps. However, you won’t receive security patches after that 5
> years. Ubuntu offers LTS > LTS upgrade paths. I’ve already used it twice
> with zero issues on multiple machines. (once from 12.04 > 14.04 and again
> from 14.04 > 16.04, I’ve even done more critical boxes from 12.04 > 16.04
> at once albeit in two steps) Certainly, it is trivial to script application
> installation and configuration if you even wanted to fresh install the
> upgrades. My current server plan is to use 16.04 until support ends in
> April 2021, then upgrade to a more seasoned 20.04 and use that till April
> 2025, upgrade to 24.04 etc. I’ll be jumping two LTS versions every four
> years, but always to the latest version which has already had two rounds of
> point release bug fixes.
>

I've had one upgrade from 14.04LTS to 16.04LTS go smoothly, and another go
rather badly. I admit that it's mostly my fault, but nevertheless it was
quite a bother. I eventually fixed it without losing anything, but it took
a few hours and some meditating.

Instead of upgrading in place, what I recommend for Unix, especially for
critical systems, is to set up 3 or 4 partitions, ideally on several
different disks. One of the partitions should be for local data (/home and
perhaps /usr/local, etc.), and the other 2 or 3 for operating systems.
Install Ubuntu on one of the partitions, tune it up, then copy to another
partition. A few modifications will have to be made (e.g., to grub
configuration). When it comes time to upgrade, you can upgrade just one of
the operating system partitions; the other will be a backup, ready to run
in case something goes wrong. If you have a lot of trouble with the
upgrade, you can just wipe one OS partition and do a fresh install of the
newer operating system. When you're sure the new one is running smoothly,
copy it over the partition with the old operating system, or just upgrade a
second time.

If the operating system is on a different disk from /home and other local
data, you can even upgrade by swapping the hard drive with the old OS for a
new hard drive with the new OS, then just run through a check list of local
modifications to configuration files (e.g., fstab, grub, hostname, users,
passwords). It will take some time to prepare the hard drive offsite, but
from the client's perspective, an upgrade could literally take minutes if
all goes well. Try that with Windows.

> Bluntly, Win10 is not a solution to this person's problem. It opens up
> > huge problems, as the plan is to store a private database on what is
> > well reported to be a system which "calls home" repeatedly.
> >
> > A commercial NAS box, or a home built one, would be a better solution.
> >
> >
> > Liz


Edward

--
Edward Doolittle
Associate Professor of Mathematics
First Nations University of Canada
1 First Nations Way, Regina SK S4S 7K2

« Toutes les fois que je donne une place vacante, je fais cent mécontents
et un ingrat. »
-- Louis XIV, dans Voltaire, Le Siècle de Louis XIV, Chap. XXVI
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