Action split

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Action split

Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz-3
I notice the Action field relates to the split rather than the whole
transaction. Consequently, if you make, for instance, a cheque payment
from one account to another, the Action text wil only show up in one
account.

It's a useful piece of information but I am somewhat reluctant entering
it as I find it most confusing that the Action does not show up on the
other side.

What is the reason for this design?
--


Best Regards,
Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz


A: Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion
Q: Why is top posting bad?
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Re: Action split

Derek Atkins
Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz <[hidden email]> writes:

> I notice the Action field relates to the split rather than the whole
> transaction. Consequently, if you make, for instance, a cheque payment
>>From one account to another, the Action text wil only show up in one
> account.
>
> It's a useful piece of information but I am somewhat reluctant entering
> it as I find it most confusing that the Action does not show up on the
> other side.
>
> What is the reason for this design?

Because in a split transaction each split is doing something different.
Take a sale of stock, where you have the Sell split, the Commission
split, the Profit split, ...

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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-derek

--
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Re: Action split

Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz-3
On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 10:09:14 -0400
Derek Atkins <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> > I notice the Action field relates to the split rather than the whole
> > transaction. Consequently, if you make, for instance, a cheque
> > payment
> > From one account to another, the Action text will only show up in
> > one account.
> >
> > It's a useful piece of information but I am somewhat reluctant
> > entering it as I find it most confusing that the Action does not
> > show up on the other side.
> >
> > What is the reason for this design?
>
> Because in a split transaction each split is doing something
> different. Take a sale of stock, where you have the Sell split, the
> Commission split, the Profit split, ...

It certainly makes sense for split transactions. For non-split
transactions it is a bit counter-intuitive for the user. Looking at the
XML data file, I can see that every unsplit transaction is a two-way
split. But the user won't think of it as a split.

Consider this:

You send a cheque from account A to account B. Enter Action 'Cheque' on
A. If you search for all cheque payments to B, you won't get any
results as the Action is associated with A.


Regards, Tarlika
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Re: Action split

Josh Sled
Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz <[hidden email]> writes:
> It certainly makes sense for split transactions. For non-split
> transactions it is a bit counter-intuitive for the user. Looking at the
> XML data file, I can see that every unsplit transaction is a two-way
> split. But the user won't think of it as a split.

But in the Basic Ledger case, one can't even see the Action field.  And in
any way of interacting with Splits, one does.

If the Basic ledger did have an Action field, using it should probably set
the Action field on all the Splits that it's hiding.


> You send a cheque from account A to account B. Enter Action 'Cheque' on
> A. If you search for all cheque payments to B, you won't get any
> results as the Action is associated with A.

Set "Cheque" on both splits.

As someone who never uses the Action field, what's the actual use case for
this?  Why do you want to know this?

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http://asynchronous.org/ - a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}

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Re: Action split

Derek Atkins
Quoting Josh Sled <[hidden email]>:

> Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz <[hidden email]> writes:
>> It certainly makes sense for split transactions. For non-split
>> transactions it is a bit counter-intuitive for the user. Looking at the
>> XML data file, I can see that every unsplit transaction is a two-way
>> split. But the user won't think of it as a split.
>
> But in the Basic Ledger case, one can't even see the Action field.  And in
> any way of interacting with Splits, one does.
>
> If the Basic ledger did have an Action field, using it should probably set
> the Action field on all the Splits that it's hiding.

The basic ledger DOES have an action field when viewed in double-line
mode.

>> You send a cheque from account A to account B. Enter Action 'Cheque' on
>> A. If you search for all cheque payments to B, you won't get any
>> results as the Action is associated with A.
>
> Set "Cheque" on both splits.
>
> As someone who never uses the Action field, what's the actual use case for
> this?  Why do you want to know this?

-derek

--
       Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
       [hidden email]                        PGP key available

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Re: Action split

Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz-3
In reply to this post by Josh Sled
On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:59:09 -0400
Josh Sled <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz <[hidden email]> writes:
> > It certainly makes sense for split transactions. For non-split
> > transactions it is a bit counter-intuitive for the user. Looking at
> > the XML data file, I can see that every unsplit transaction is a
> > two-way split. But the user won't think of it as a split.
>
> But in the Basic Ledger case, one can't even see the Action field.
> And in any way of interacting with Splits, one does.
>
> If the Basic ledger did have an Action field, using it should
> probably set the Action field on all the Splits that it's hiding.

As Derek confirmed earlier to-day, the Action field is visible in
double-line mode.

And as I described above, setting it only sets it on the account where
you are entering the transaction.


I understand that internally a non-split transaction has 2 splits
(which the end user won't be aware of). While I appreciate that you
need a separate Action field for multi-splits, it is not great for
no-splits.

If I make an electronic transfer from account A to B it is an
electronic transfer regardless from which end I look at it.

A possible solution might be to auto-populate the other Action field
for non-split transactions?

> > You send a cheque from account A to account B. Enter Action
> > 'Cheque' on A. If you search for all cheque payments to B, you
> > won't get any results as the Action is associated with A.
>
> Set "Cheque" on both splits.
>
> As someone who never uses the Action field, what's the actual use
> case for this?  Why do you want to know this?

It's a piece of information which can act as a filter in reports.

example 1:

One of my current accounts pays me 1% cashback on all debit card
payments up to £10K. I enter "Debit Card" in the action
field. I created a report that selects all debit card pay-outs from
this account for a year. I use this to check whether I have reached my
limit and at the end of the year to check whether the bank has paid me
the correct amount.

example 2:

In the UK, they have only just introduced a new electronic payment
system which transfers funds in hours rather than days. This is only
available between certain banks. I would like to make a note in the
Action field which method I used for a transfer. This will a) indicate
whether monies arrived on the same day and b) allow some analysis which
banks have adopted the new system.


The whole point of an accounting system is being able to analyze the
data. This means you need good reporting facilities and useful data
fields for filtering. I like GnuCash because the way data are entered
suits me but reporting is a bit of a sore point. ;-)

I've got a huge amount of data and I can imagine all sorts of reports
I might want to run but that's another topic.


Regards,
Tarlika
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Re: Action split

Derek Atkins
Hi,

I think you should file a bug report on this.

-derek

Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:59:09 -0400
> Josh Sled <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz <[hidden email]> writes:
>> > It certainly makes sense for split transactions. For non-split
>> > transactions it is a bit counter-intuitive for the user. Looking at
>> > the XML data file, I can see that every unsplit transaction is a
>> > two-way split. But the user won't think of it as a split.
>>
>> But in the Basic Ledger case, one can't even see the Action field.
>> And in any way of interacting with Splits, one does.
>>
>> If the Basic ledger did have an Action field, using it should
>> probably set the Action field on all the Splits that it's hiding.
>
> As Derek confirmed earlier to-day, the Action field is visible in
> double-line mode.
>
> And as I described above, setting it only sets it on the account where
> you are entering the transaction.
>
>
> I understand that internally a non-split transaction has 2 splits
> (which the end user won't be aware of). While I appreciate that you
> need a separate Action field for multi-splits, it is not great for
> no-splits.
>
> If I make an electronic transfer from account A to B it is an
> electronic transfer regardless from which end I look at it.
>
> A possible solution might be to auto-populate the other Action field
> for non-split transactions?
>
>> > You send a cheque from account A to account B. Enter Action
>> > 'Cheque' on A. If you search for all cheque payments to B, you
>> > won't get any results as the Action is associated with A.
>>
>> Set "Cheque" on both splits.
>>
>> As someone who never uses the Action field, what's the actual use
>> case for this?  Why do you want to know this?
>
> It's a piece of information which can act as a filter in reports.
>
> example 1:
>
> One of my current accounts pays me 1% cashback on all debit card
> payments up to £10K. I enter "Debit Card" in the action
> field. I created a report that selects all debit card pay-outs from
> this account for a year. I use this to check whether I have reached my
> limit and at the end of the year to check whether the bank has paid me
> the correct amount.
>
> example 2:
>
> In the UK, they have only just introduced a new electronic payment
> system which transfers funds in hours rather than days. This is only
> available between certain banks. I would like to make a note in the
> Action field which method I used for a transfer. This will a) indicate
> whether monies arrived on the same day and b) allow some analysis which
> banks have adopted the new system.
>
>
> The whole point of an accounting system is being able to analyze the
> data. This means you need good reporting facilities and useful data
> fields for filtering. I like GnuCash because the way data are entered
> suits me but reporting is a bit of a sore point. ;-)
>
> I've got a huge amount of data and I can imagine all sorts of reports
> I might want to run but that's another topic.
>
>
> Regards,
> Tarlika
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

--
       Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
       [hidden email]                        PGP key available
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Re: Action split

Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz-3
On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:18:50 -0400
Derek Atkins <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think you should file a bug report on this.
>
> -derek
>
> Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> >
> > If I make an electronic transfer from account A to B it is an
> > electronic transfer regardless from which end I look at it.
> >
> > A possible solution might be to auto-populate the other Action field
> > for non-split transactions?
> >



done : http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=537420
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